I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.

Graham Harrison wrote on 05 Nov
2016 at 08:57 ...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.

It depends how you define a "complete circle". Outer rail Circle trains
start from Hammersmith, enter the circle at Praed Street Junction and
call at all stations from Edgware Road to Edgware Road. The track from
Praed Street Junction to Edgware Road is therefore covered twice. That
looks like a complete circle to me. The Inner Rail service does the
same in the other direction.

There is at least one timetabled Circle service that passes through
several stations twice without reversing. On Mon-Fri, train 200 runs
from Kings Cross (05:20), inner rail via Edgware Road, right round the
inner-rail circle to Edgware Road again, and then to Hammersmith (06:39).

There may be others. The current WTT is online at
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-34-cir...h-and-city.pdf
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Graham Harrison wrote on 05 Nov
2016 at 08:57 ...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.

It depends how you define a "complete circle". Outer rail Circle trains
start from Hammersmith, enter the circle at Praed Street Junction and
call at all stations from Edgware Road to Edgware Road. The track from
Praed Street Junction to Edgware Road is therefore covered twice. That
looks like a complete circle to me. The Inner Rail service does the
same in the other direction.

Technically, that is indeed a circle. But a real Circle line would let
passengers routinely travel from High St Ken to Baker St by the shortest
route without changing and vice versa.


There is at least one timetabled Circle service that passes through
several stations twice without reversing. On Mon-Fri, train 200 runs
from Kings Cross (05:20), inner rail via Edgware Road, right round the
inner-rail circle to Edgware Road again, and then to Hammersmith (06:39).

There may be others. The current WTT is online at
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-34-cir...h-and-city.pdf

But you still couldn't travel directly from Farringdon to High St Ken on
the inner rail.

On 05.11.16 16:34, Recliner wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Graham Harrison wrote on 05 Nov
2016 at 08:57 ...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.

It depends how you define a "complete circle". Outer rail Circle trains
start from Hammersmith, enter the circle at Praed Street Junction and
call at all stations from Edgware Road to Edgware Road. The track from
Praed Street Junction to Edgware Road is therefore covered twice. That
looks like a complete circle to me. The Inner Rail service does the
same in the other direction.

Technically, that is indeed a circle. But a real Circle line would let
passengers routinely travel from High St Ken to Baker St by the shortest
route without changing and vice versa.


There is at least one timetabled Circle service that passes through
several stations twice without reversing. On Mon-Fri, train 200 runs
from Kings Cross (05:20), inner rail via Edgware Road, right round the
inner-rail circle to Edgware Road again, and then to Hammersmith (06:39).

There may be others. The current WTT is online at
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-34-cir...h-and-city.pdf

But you still couldn't travel directly from Farringdon to High St Ken on
the inner rail.

What about from Amersham or Chesham directly to Watford?

wrote:
On 05.11.16 16:34, Recliner wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Graham Harrison wrote on 05 Nov
2016 at 08:57 ...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.

It depends how you define a "complete circle". Outer rail Circle trains
start from Hammersmith, enter the circle at Praed Street Junction and
call at all stations from Edgware Road to Edgware Road. The track from
Praed Street Junction to Edgware Road is therefore covered twice. That
looks like a complete circle to me. The Inner Rail service does the
same in the other direction.

Technically, that is indeed a circle. But a real Circle line would let
passengers routinely travel from High St Ken to Baker St by the shortest
route without changing and vice versa.


There is at least one timetabled Circle service that passes through
several stations twice without reversing. On Mon-Fri, train 200 runs
from Kings Cross (05:20), inner rail via Edgware Road, right round the
inner-rail circle to Edgware Road again, and then to Hammersmith (06:39).

There may be others. The current WTT is online at
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-34-cir...h-and-city.pdf

But you still couldn't travel directly from Farringdon to High St Ken on
the inner rail.

What about from Amersham or Chesham directly to Watford?

Not currently possible under normal circumstances, and not currently
planned. There has been talk of a possible Chiltern service from Aylesbury
to Watford Junction, but I don't think it's yet a serious proposal.

But, once in a while, services are scheduled to use the north face of the
triangle:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57651394935649

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when
there is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent
closure wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I
think the whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via
Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.

As I understand it, yes.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 05.11.16 8:57, Graham Harrison wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2016 18:03:15 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

I know the Circle is no longer advertised as a circle but do any
trains actually do the circle? I was on a Hammersmith and City last
Friday from Liverpool Street to Hammersmith but at Edgware Road it
became a Circle Line (didn't worry me since my destination was
Paddington).

Is it just an occasional, unpredictable, change or are there any
trains actually scheduled to make the complete circle ever?

The former. They advertise when a circle service is run, usually when there
is engineering work on the Hammersmith branch. The most recent closure
wasn't a circle because the closure was west of Baker Street. I think the
whole line was suspended or maybe they ran High St-Baker St via Aldgate only.

Thank you. So, using National Rail terms, absolutely no complete
circles as part of the Working Time Table. When it does occur it's a
VAR or STP.


I meant to ask about about VAR and STP, specifically what they mean.

I was a few months ago on the NLL, and I saw on RTT a train that was due
to run ECM from Ilford to Hornsey via Denmark Junction. The train never
showed, yet the indication for it on RTT had the letters STP in a box.

On 06/11/2016 01:05, wrote:
I meant to ask about about VAR and STP, specifically what they mean.

From memory, "variation" and "short term planning".

A few years ago Chiltern organized a special train for me and four other
people. From memory (I seem to have lost it) the STP notice was filed on
Saturday afternoon and the train ran on Sunday morning.