http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-london-mayor-
boris-bus-scrap-boris-johnson-legacy-double-decker-routemasters-
a7505391.html
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-london-mayor-
boris-bus-scrap-boris-johnson-legacy-double-decker-routemasters-
a7505391.html

The headline is a bit of an exaggeration, and it's really a non-story on a
quiet news day: we already knew no more of them were to be ordered, and
Sadiq isn't actually getting rid of the delivered fleet.

On 02/01/2017 20:44, Roland Perry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-london-mayor-
boris-bus-scrap-boris-johnson-legacy-double-decker-routemasters-
a7505391.html


That was in TfL's business plan published on 8 December.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20161215-item09-tfl-business-plan.pdf

And nice of the Independent to go along with TfL's spin. While I'm no
fan of the NRMs, there's not even a hint of the other narrative:

"Sadiq Khan's fares freeze means TfL can no longer afford to buy other
kinds of new buses in place of the Routemasters".




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-london-mayor-
boris-bus-scrap-boris-johnson-legacy-double-decker-routemasters-
a7505391.html

The headline is a bit of an exaggeration, and it's really a non-story on a
quiet news day: we already knew no more of them were to be ordered, and
Sadiq isn't actually getting rid of the delivered fleet.


I am assuming London is stuck with the NRMs until they are scrapped. At
least the bendies were a standard design that could be sold to other UK bus
operators; we have some of them in Brighton & Hove.

--
DAS

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 00:37:35 -0000
"D A Stocks" wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
-septem
er.org...
Roland Perry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-london-mayor-
boris-bus-scrap-boris-johnson-legacy-double-decker-routemasters-
a7505391.html

The headline is a bit of an exaggeration, and it's really a non-story on a
quiet news day: we already knew no more of them were to be ordered, and
Sadiq isn't actually getting rid of the delivered fleet.


I am assuming London is stuck with the NRMs until they are scrapped. At
least the bendies were a standard design that could be sold to other UK bus
operators; we have some of them in Brighton & Hove.

It does seem to be history repeating itself. Boris didn't like the bendies
giving some spurious nonsense about them being a danger to cyclists (or more
likely because they were Kens idea) and now Kahn has decided the roastmasters
are a poor choice. Which to be fair, they are.

I suppose if you're mayor of western europes largest city but you really don't
have much power, buses seem to be the bit where you can leave your legacy.

--
Spud

In article , d () wrote:

It does seem to be history repeating itself. Boris didn't like the
bendies
giving some spurious nonsense about them being a danger to cyclists
(or more likely because they were Kens idea) and now Kahn has decided
the roastmasters are a poor choice. Which to be fair, they are.

Speaking as a cyclist I hated the bendies. They were so long they were very
hard to navigate round and they kept cutting in on one.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 07:18:22 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

It does seem to be history repeating itself. Boris didn't like the
bendies
giving some spurious nonsense about them being a danger to cyclists
(or more likely because they were Kens idea) and now Kahn has decided
the roastmasters are a poor choice. Which to be fair, they are.

Speaking as a cyclist I hated the bendies. They were so long they were very
hard to navigate round and they kept cutting in on one.

So treat them like an HGV. Problem solved. They have them all over europe
without thousands of dead cyclists littering the roads. As someone who has
taken a pushchair on a double decker on number of occasions its a fecking
nightmare - half the bus is out of bounds. God knows what the disabled think of
the bloody things. Quite why we're so wedded to having 2 storey vehicles in
this country is anyones guess.

--
Spud

On 03/01/2017 15:31, d wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 07:18:22 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

It does seem to be history repeating itself. Boris didn't like the
bendies
giving some spurious nonsense about them being a danger to cyclists
(or more likely because they were Kens idea) and now Kahn has decided
the roastmasters are a poor choice. Which to be fair, they are.

Speaking as a cyclist I hated the bendies. They were so long they were very
hard to navigate round and they kept cutting in on one.

So treat them like an HGV. Problem solved. They have them all over europe
without thousands of dead cyclists littering the roads. As someone who has
taken a pushchair on a double decker on number of occasions its a fecking
nightmare - half the bus is out of bounds. God knows what the disabled think of
the bloody things. Quite why we're so wedded to having 2 storey vehicles in
this country is anyones guess.

Wasn't the problem more (from my experience) that the road design in
London is unsuited to large numbers of such long vehicles - ie the
distance between traffic lights and other obstacles to road progress was
not a reasonable multiple of bendies long so if (when!) the service
bunched up or many routes served a road then they caused more congestion
than would reasonably be expected or presented an impediment to progress
- whether that be themselves, other motorists or pedestrians.

That, allied to their reputation as a "free bus" and the consequential
crush loading on certain services (25 anyone?), was what made them
undesirable than the supposed risk to cyclists (which was unproven) and
their flammability (which was fixed and never caused an injury anyway).

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 16:11:43 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 03/01/2017 15:31, d wrote:
So treat them like an HGV. Problem solved. They have them all over europe
without thousands of dead cyclists littering the roads. As someone who has
taken a pushchair on a double decker on number of occasions its a fecking
nightmare - half the bus is out of bounds. God knows what the disabled think
of
the bloody things. Quite why we're so wedded to having 2 storey vehicles in
this country is anyones guess.

Wasn't the problem more (from my experience) that the road design in
London is unsuited to large numbers of such long vehicles - ie the
distance between traffic lights and other obstacles to road progress was
not a reasonable multiple of bendies long so if (when!) the service
bunched up or many routes served a road then they caused more congestion
than would reasonably be expected or presented an impediment to progress
- whether that be themselves, other motorists or pedestrians.

Possibly. OTOH they carried ~150 passengers compared to about 80 on a DD and
they weren't close to being twice as long, so they carried more passengers per
metre of road space used.

That, allied to their reputation as a "free bus" and the consequential
crush loading on certain services (25 anyone?), was what made them

More random ticket inspections would have sorted that problem. You don't get
mass fare evasion on the gateless DLR because they do frequent checks. But of
course that means hiring people and TfL don't like doing that. Unless its for
management positions of course.

undesirable than the supposed risk to cyclists (which was unproven) and

Quite so. Just lots of lycra louts whining when they found out that riding up
the inside of an articulated vehicle turning left turned out to be a bad idea.
Who knew? (Well, everyone with some basic common sense which excludes a lot
of cyclists it seems).

their flammability (which was fixed and never caused an injury anyway).

And a lot of them ended up happily working in the heat in Malta. Ironic.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 16:11:43 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 03/01/2017 15:31, d wrote:
So treat them like an HGV. Problem solved. They have them all over europe
without thousands of dead cyclists littering the roads. As someone who has
taken a pushchair on a double decker on number of occasions its a fecking
nightmare - half the bus is out of bounds. God knows what the disabled think
of
the bloody things. Quite why we're so wedded to having 2 storey vehicles in
this country is anyones guess.

Wasn't the problem more (from my experience) that the road design in
London is unsuited to large numbers of such long vehicles - ie the
distance between traffic lights and other obstacles to road progress was
not a reasonable multiple of bendies long so if (when!) the service
bunched up or many routes served a road then they caused more congestion
than would reasonably be expected or presented an impediment to progress
- whether that be themselves, other motorists or pedestrians.

Possibly. OTOH they carried ~150 passengers compared to about 80 on a DD and
they weren't close to being twice as long, so they carried more passengers per
metre of road space used.

That, allied to their reputation as a "free bus" and the consequential
crush loading on certain services (25 anyone?), was what made them

More random ticket inspections would have sorted that problem. You don't get
mass fare evasion on the gateless DLR because they do frequent checks. But of
course that means hiring people and TfL don't like doing that. Unless its for
management positions of course.

undesirable than the supposed risk to cyclists (which was unproven) and

Quite so. Just lots of lycra louts whining when they found out that riding up
the inside of an articulated vehicle turning left turned out to be a bad idea.
Who knew? (Well, everyone with some basic common sense which excludes a lot
of cyclists it seems).

their flammability (which was fixed and never caused an injury anyway).

And a lot of them ended up happily working in the heat in Malta. Ironic.

Not happily. They had more fires and were soon taken off the road. They've
new been sent to somewhere hotter still: Sudan.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...s-8788929.html

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...o-sudan.507334