"Walter Briscoe" wrote:

In message of Wed, 24 Nov 2010
12:04:05 in uk.transport.london, Mizter T writes

"Walter Briscoe" wrote:
[snip]
However, I did find:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/congestioncharging/17096.aspx
I expect this to provide a significant improvement.

Currently, if you don't make manual arrangements to pay the CC and incur
a congestion charge, you incur a penalty charge.
I live within the Congestion Charge area and can claim the 90% residents
discount. I pay for a year in advance to avoid that Penalty Charge risk.
This modification to the scheme will mean I won't need to do so.

For me, these are 2 improvements.

Blimey, not sure the number heavy subject line does much for reader-
friendliness (sorry!) - you're not a coder are you perchance?

No perchance about it.

Of course said format (ISO 8601) has rather more widespread usage than just
in coding, courtesy of its unambiguousness. Still, I'm not mad keen on it in
non-technical contexts - ultimately I blame the yanks! (How do you end up
with the month at the start?!)

[snip]
With regards to CC Auto Pay - this isn't a brand new idea on the scene,
it was certainly around in the summer during the statutory consultation
on changes to the CC (i.e. removal of the Western Extension) and I
think it was first publicly floated by TfL before that.

It is not new; I believe it is new to have a date on it. My opinion is
that the Western Extension was unnecessary and doctrinaire and removing
it, given it is in place, is also unnecessary and doctrinaire. (Scraps
useful hardware.) However, I don't argue with Boris's mandate to do so.

The CC consultation in the summer dealt with several proposed changes - the
biggest of course was the removal of the WEZ but it made fairly clear that
the intention was for all the changes to happen at the same time after the
new year (including the introduction of CC Auto Pay).

Re the removal of the WEZ - I think there's a whole other thread in that,
but I recall Tom Barry of 'Boris Watch' suggesting that the initial
non-statutory consultation on the future of the WEZ was a bit dodgy/ rubbish
in its methodology (and it's worth bearing in mind that he didn't actually
have a manifesto commitment to aboloshing it). Ultimately though I wouldn't
argue with his mandate to do so either, even though I disagree with it. Paul
C did make an interesting point recently, that whilst Boris can scrap the
WEZ whilst at the same time trying to extract as much funding out of central
government for London transport improvements, govt. funding for the
Nottingham tram extensions remains conditional on the council imposing work
place parking levies.

I'm not up with what will happen to the existing cameras and kit for the
WEZ, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some were retained on some sort
of security rationale (i.e. for police ANPR purposes).


However the £10 annual charge for registering with CC Auto Pay didn't
feature in those earlier mentions of this facility, though TBH it's
quite understandable that there is to be some sort of maintenance
charge for benefitting from it - but compared to my original (and in
retrospect naive) assumption that it'd be free to register for Auto
Pay, the annual charge does change the economics somewhat as to whether
it'd be advantageous for those who rarely drive into the CC zone during
operational hours (still rather cheaper than a single penalty charge
notice of course!).

There is the same fee for Residential discounts. I don't know if I will
have to pay two fees. I don't feel like contacting CC London to find out.
My current "subscription" ends in March.

Aha, yes I see - will the annual Auto Pay fee be on top of the pre-existing
annual fee for the residents discount. My solution to that question would be
to sit tight and all will become clear - though quickly scanning the
available blurb about Auto Pay there's no mention of one fee cancelling out
the other, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if you will have to pay the two
fees.

Just being nosey - does your prepaid year's worth of discounted CC run up
until March too (i.e. is it concurrent with your annual residents discount
'subscription')?

[snip]
The other thing that interests me about this CC Auto Pay scheme is that
it will throw some light onto how effective the CC zone cameras are at
recording the number plates of all those vehicles which drive in the
(to be shrunken) zone - regular drivers into the zone should get some
idea over time as to whether they ever simply don't get detected and
hence charged for a particular day. I wonder if it might also lead to a
bout of daftness such as drivers trying to sandwich themselves between
large vehicles when passing the cameras on the zone's boundaries in the
hope of blocking their number plates, or obscuring their plates with
muck or some such? My impression is that the cameras, which face both
ways, are pretty hot at catching the plates of all vehicles which pass
by them.

My experience is that 100% of infractions are detected.

IIRC there were various murmurings about dirty number plates or non-standard
fonts used on number plates, but leaving that aside I haven't come across
anyone who's said that 'they got away with it' - failed to pay without
getting a PCN. Well, for UK registered cars at least - foreign registered
cars are a different ball game - and that's without mentioning the
diplomats!



What perhaps might be more likely to go undetected is vehicles moving
around solely within the zone, without passing out through the zone's
boundary - e.g. if you (Walter) were to drive your car for a short trip
inside the zone. There are mobile CC camera vans that are out and about
within the zone, but I must admit I'm not sure if there are any fixed
cameras which are hooked up to the CC system - of course there are many
CCTV cameras in central London which have a traffic monitoring role,
and there are the fixed ANPR cameras on the edges of the City of
London's 'ring of steel', and I'm pretty sure there are various ANPR
cameras around other 'sensitive' locations such as
Whitehall/Westminster - but I don't think any of these feed into the CC
system, and I'm not sure there are any dedicated CC cameras *within*
the zone.

I know of the mobile vans within the zone. I believe fixed cameras are
only on the cordon. I suspect parked vehicles will be checked manually.

Though of course for cars that are parked in an on-street resident's bay
which are registered for a CC residents discount there's no need to pay the
discounted CC so long as they aren't driven at all during charging hours (of
course they'll also need a valid residents parking permit, but that's the
local council's department not TfL's). I wonder if the CC enforcement bods
do bother checking parked vehicles at all?