Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:35:03 on Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Recliner
remarked:
Even taking into account the Network Grant, several rail services in the
London area create a surplus.

Yes, that's an operating profit. I doubt that they're making a bottom line
profit if you allow for the value of the assets used.

No, that's the whole point; several are now making sufficient operating
profit that the premium they send to the Treasury also more than covers
the infrastructure cost.

The costs of maintaining the infrastructure, not the amortisation cost for
building it. In most cases, the costs of building former BR assets were
written off a very long time ago, but that won't be true of new airport
links. Unless premium HEx-type fares can be charged, the fares won't cover
the interest on the loans to build them, let alone the capital repayments.

No, if you take the money given to Network Rail to subsidise the
maintenance and new "investment" in the system (used by these TOCs) as a
whole, then the fares do cover it.

Last year it might be rebuilding Kings Cross, next year Cambridge North.
15yrs ago it was re-laying much of the ECML because of Hatfield.

That's maintenance and renewal, not new building. I'm talking about
acquiring land and building new lines, nit just fixing what's already
there.


As you say, the cost of the wiring in the late 70's was paid for years
ago, although the ongoing maintenance costs undoubtedly swamp any
notional interest payments on the construction cost.

For example, do you really think the Tube fares cover the full costs of
extending the Piccadilly line to Heathrow, including the three stations?

The TOCs I'm talking about are not operating on that particular line.
But on the other hand the fares on that bit of the Piccadilly Line over
the years will be quite a handsome sum.

But that sum (remember, unlike HEx, there's no premium on the Tube fare to
Heathrow, and it's included in daily caps and Freedom Passes) won't have
covered the cost of the tunnelling and station building. Hopefully, it at
least covered the cost of buying extra trains and operating them over the
extended line.

In the same vein, one hopes that Crossrail will at least cover its full
operating cost from the fare box, but no-one expects the fares to pay off
the full construction costs (less the contributions made by businesses).
Ditto with HS2.