On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Aaron Borbora wrote:

"James Christie" wrote in message
...

The parents seem to instill none of these values into the kids.

Very interesting point, with which I mostly agree. Yes it is about
instilling values, but I wonder how I and presumably others seem to have
picked them up without getting hit

And i wonder how so many kids who did get hit grew up into vicious
psychopaths.

I agree with both of you - the louts who are the cause of this problem are
the way they are because they lack civilised moral values, and i would
guess that's because their parents didn't instil them in them. Where i
don't agree with James, but i think i do agree with Aaron, is that
corporal punishment isn't the only way, or perhaps even a way at all, of
instilling values.

I think my parents taught me about right and wrong (before i got to
reading Mill!), but the only sanction they ever used which really meant
anything was their disapproval - they were the people i looked up to most
when i was a child, so when i did something wrong in their eyes, i felt
ashamed, and that's the stick that kept me away from doing evil (or at
least, from doing evil and getting caught). As the pen is mightier than
the sword, the paternal scowl is mightier than the wielded belt.

If i'm right, then the root of the lout's lack of morality is that they
don't respect their parents. Now, one person respects another because that
person does something to inspire respect (it's not as if children do or
should automatically respect their parents), so this lack of respect must
be because the parents have failed to conduct themselves properly. Looking
at the absolutely criminal standard of parenting i see in some people
around me, this is not at all surprising. Indeed, i venture to suggest
that a quick resort to violence, as James could be interpreted as
suggesting, is an element of this bad parenting, and a contributing factor
to the lack of respect.

Perhaps what we need to tackle these problems is to give these kids a
future.

What are you, some sort of pinko commie liberal?

Sorry for the long and rambling post, it's the product of a brain
overworked by adrenergic transmission, embryology, molecular DNA all in
1 day!

Good grief - not molecular DNA!

tom

--
skills to pay the bills!