Martin Underwood wrote:
Adrian wrote in
70:


Martin Underwood ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :


Cyclists, on the other hand, often overtake cars which are
indicating left. As a car driver, I usually pull close to the kerb as
I approach a junction where I'm turning left if I've recently
overtaken a cyclist, to physically prevent him from overtaking
illegally. I wish it wasn't necessary to resort to this tactic.

It isn't necessary. Just don't overtake the cyclist if you know
you'll be turning left shortly afterwards.


It's not that simple. I may encounter the cyclist (maybe going as slowly as
5 mph when I'm going at 30) when I'm several hundred yards from the
junction. To slow down to his speed and drive behind him for ages is absurd
and would incur the wrath of other traffic. So I overtake him. Then the
lights change just as I'm approaching the lights: maybe I'm first or second
car. While I'm stopped, the cyclist catches up with me. The lights turn
green. If he's already level with me or in front of me, fine - he goes
first. But suppose he's a second or so later and is just behind me. Should I
delay setting off to let him overtake me or should he wait until I've
turned? I reckon the latter.

I think the problem stems from the design of the junction which
permits/encourages a lane of vehicles (cyclists) to the left of the stream
of cars that wants to turn left. A scheme that encouraged cyclists to
overtake on the right when there was a stream of cars waiting to turn right
would be equally absurd.


I don't see the problem.

Here in Holland, cyclists are allowed to overtake stationary or slow
moving traffic on the 'pavement-side" (which would be on the left if in
the UK". Moreover, they have right of way when they are going straight
ahead and a car is turning left. Every driver is taught that he has to
check thorougly for cyclists between them and the pavement before
turning left. If you're used to it, it's no problem at all.

In continental Europe, rules have been adapted to give cyclists the same
rights as drivers (i.e. if a cyclist comes from the right, he has
priority over the driver). IMO, this rule increases the average speed
cycling and makes the bike a more attractive mode of transport. Which,
of course, is good for the urban environment.

The problem in the UK is, I guess, on one hand that motorists aren't
used to bicycles and don't know very well how to react and anticipate on
cyclists. They don't understand how vuneralbe cyclists are in traffic.
On the other hand, cycling infrastructure isn't by far as good as it is
in some Continental countries. The UK can learn a lot from what is done
for cyclists in the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium.

Besides, it always amuses me how much protective clothing cyclists in
the UK wear. Here in Holland, a cyclist with a helmet or with reflective
clothing is laughing stock...

regards,
hgrm