asdf wrote in message ...

I thought all users were always told to touch in and out, but it seems
I was wrong - it appears to depend where you look.

In the "Your guide to Oyster" leaflet, under "how to use Oyster", it
tells you to always touch in and out on Tube/DLR/NR. No distinction is
made between having a Travelcard or using pre-pay.

True - but the phrase used in the simple instructions (I haven't got the
leaflet to hand) is "the start/end of your journey", which brings us to the
problem that the traveller mentality, reinforced by both TfL & NR
advertising, interprets this differently from the Oyster technology.

IIRC the recorded announcements that are made every so often on Tube
platforms say the same thing.

I've not heard one for quite a while - and I can't recall ever hearing one
at Stratford, one of the stations where this can be a serious problem.
They're more concerned with telling us smoking is banned (sometimes so
concerned they override the announcement as to which stations the eastbound
trains stop at, which is really helpful for customers at the eastern end of
the platform where there's no visual information for a lot of stations).

On the Oystercard website, it says you must always touch in and out on
Tube/NR, but, under DLR, it says "You only need to touch in and touch
out when using Oyster to pay as you go".

Again it comes back to what constitutes "using Oyster to pay as you go" -
from the traveller's perspective one is only using it from the zone
boundary, not the start of the journey. (And also what happens to "no need
to plan"?)

Buried in an answer to a question in the "Ask Oyster" section of the
website, is the following: "If using an Oyster card loaded with a
season Travelcard there may be times when you will not be able to
touch your Oyster card to a reader, for instance if you are travelling
to or from a National Rail station at which no Oyster readers have
been installed. This is acceptable as long as you are not travelling
outside of the zones of the Travelcard on your Oyster card."

Which leaves open the problem of extensions on services where PrePay is
accepted for part of it (e.g. travelling beyond Stratford into Liverpool
Street or taking the train and tube on a journey).

Also from this phrasing I assume that touching in/out at Ilford *is*
sufficient for any extension travel in PrePay areas - is that so?

The leaflet that comes in the wallet with an Oyster card

Looking in my current wallet (issued last October when I received my student
photo/Oyster in one card) there isn't a leaflet there and never has been.
There is one from September 2005 in the old card and wallet, though it's for
the student card and primarily focused on season tickets, telling people to
look elsewhere for PrePay info (which again is unhelpful if the user is
starting from a National Rail station with no info on PrePay there). And
there's some interesting info in the section "Oyster Pre Pay on National
Rail services":

"If you hold a season ticket which does not cover all or part of one of the
above services [National Rail accepting PrePay] and you wish to use Oyster
Pre Pay as a ticket extension on the participating service, you will need to
break your journey where your season ticket cease to be valid. At that
station you need to touch your card on the reader and then continue your
journey.
If your train does not stop at that station or you do not wish to break your
journey, you will need to buy an adult rate paper Ticket Extension ticket
which must be used to enter/exit through the ticket gates where the ticket
is valid. You must not use Oyster Pre Pay in these cases."

This whole thing rather goes against the instructions on the other side
under "If your Discount rate Travelcard does not cover the full journey you
wish to make" where it says:

"If you travel beyond your Travelcard zones, an adult rate ticket extension
fare is automatically deducted when you touch your Oyster photocard on a
card reader as you exist the station."

There's nothing explicit about having to touch in at the outset of the
journey and "automatically deducted" is in no way the same thing as "you
will need to break your journey where your season ticket cease to be valid."

And the requirement to break the journey or plan in advance again runs
counter to Oyster advertising about "no need to plan in advance" and the
system automatically deducting the relevant fare(s).

Plus paper extension tickets are very difficult to obtain, especially at
National Rail stations which often don't staff the ticket office out of peak
hours (when is a user is most likely to want an extension) or offer them on
the machines. Once more we find small print details going against everything
Oyster is supposed to be doing (i.e. getting sales out of the ticket halls).