wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
http://manila.djh.dk/Ukraine/stories/storyReader$5
(Average *monthly* earnings of US$100 for Ukrainians, 2000)

Well for a start that report is over 6 years out of date and secondly
while that might possibly be true averaged as a whole over the country
there is a lot of money floating about in Kiev , and I'm not just talking
about the Mafia. Besides which , if everything cost 1/45th of that in
Britain then your argument may hold water , but lots of things , eg mobile
phones , radios, white goods, some foods, cost the same or more than they
do in britain.

I accept that the report is out of date. Deeper digging (link below from
the IMF) has uncovered a figure for August 2004 of 604.2UAH, which is
about £64 at current exchange rates (in the absence of an exchange rate
for 2004). This is still 11.5% of London monthly wages (£2409).

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2005/cr0521.pdf

Although I accept that averages cover up fluctuations across the
country, the following ILO document (p46 in Acrobat Reader) suggests
that Kiev workers have a lower wage than the Ukrainian average. It is
out of date, but it shows that fluctuations go both ways.

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/pr...cs/ukraine.pdf

Finally, the key issue is that a Kiev ticket price of £2.80 is about
4.4% of monthly wages, whilst a London ticket for Zones 1&2 of £85.30 is
about 3.5% of monthly wages. Those percentages can be compared, unlike
the nominal values. If some goods cost the same or more than they do in
Britain, that means that Ukrainians have *even less* to spend on
transport. For example, if either buys a £30 radio, the Ukrainian has
£34 left to spend that month (of which transport would be 8%) whilst the
Londoner has £2379 left (of which transport would still be around 3.5%).

The Kiev metro is nowhere near as extensive as the London Underground -
it has 59km of route and 45 stations (compared to 408km and 275
stations). Zone 1 would be comparable; a Zones 1&2 monthly travelcard
costs £85.30. Make of that what you will.

Yeah , this argument is frequently trotted out as if size has any bearing on
the running of a system. You might as well say that HSBC can't be expected
to be run as well as Northern Rock because its so much bigger. If you
have the staff & resources in place , clued up management and workers who
treat their jobs as a priviledge , not a right , then it would all work
smoothly. You don't, so it doesn't.

I wasn't attempting to compare the running of the systems. I was only
comparing the ticket prices, which seem nearly equivalent. The reason I
"trotted out" the size of the system was that a travelcard on the Kiev
metro can only realistically be compared to a Zones 1&2 travelcard in
London because the London system is so much larger overall (thus making
a comparison with a Z1-6 travelcard a fallacy).

And if you don't think thats a valid point, go check out the Moscow Metro.
Its the busiest in the world and it runs just as well as the one in Kiev.

I am making no judgment about performance. I'd be very glad to check out
the Moscow Metro if someone will buy me a ticket to Moscow...

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London