On 12 Sep 2006 03:51:03 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:

Sure it is. There's posters all over the network comparing the cash
and Oyster PAYG fares.

There might be. But, if you've never heard of Oyster? Likely answer
is that you'll tune out.

There are endless posters and announcements. There are leaflets and
booklets in racks at all tube stations. There are thousands of "ticket
stops" across London that can handle Oyster.

I think I must be some sort of freak because I take a few minutes to
check out the transport and ticket options for anywhere that I am
visiting. I then try to understand - even through a poor understanding
of most European languages - where I might be able to buy the ticket
that looks like the best option. This is done via a combination of a
decent guide book and the Internet.

I can't speak Italian but I managed to get a 7 day ticket, when I
visited Rome last year, which I made a financial loss on but I had the
freedom of the public transport network. I certainly had no desire to
find a news stand or tobacco place every time I wanted to catch a bus -
crazy! In Berlin I got a 3 day card at the Airport and happily whizzed
here and there. None of these tickets were available via machines - I
had to find a human being to sell them to me.

I have held a HK Octopus Card for years despite only visiting maybe once
a year or so. Very easy process to get the card checked for value, taken
off the hotlist if it has been removed from use due to no journey
activity and then adding some value. I don't think it has ever taken
more than 3 minutes to do. Adding value while in HK has only been a
breeze and I cannot speak or read Chinese. Same in Singapore with
their electronic ticket - again no issue and no ticket machine. Same in
Paris with the Mobilis ticket.

Most of the above tickets are not the tourist offer - they are simply
what the locals would buy. If I had to come to London to visit I would
almost certainly get an Oyster card. I agree that the rules around PAYG
are fairly complex but they can be explained.

If the Mayor wants to go Oyster-only, fine, I have no issue with that.
There are, I believe, other cities where public transport is pre-paid
only, with no cash accepted at stations or on buses.

There are loads of them.

However, there
needs to be a simple, step-by-step set of instructions, and it needs to
be more accessible.

Well yes I agree but I think you would struggle to find equivalents of
what you are suggesting for most other cities in Europe or further
afield. What you go get is promotion of special Tourist tickets which
typically represent very poor value for money and are simply another
form of "rip off" that everyone is getting so irritated about with the
latest fare changes for 2007.

Everyone in this NG knows what Oyster is, how to get one, what it costs
etc, thus if anyone on this NG pays one of these rip-off fares they
have only themselves to blame. You cannot, however, apply this
argument to a non- or poor-English-speaking tourist, or visitor to
London who doesn't frequent big cities and their transport systems, who
would just go to the ticket machine and prod the likely looking button.

So I deserve special treatment when I wander aimlessly into a bus or
train station in Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, Italy, Germany, the
Netherlands or France because I cannot deal with their respective
languages to any great level of competence and I'm not an expert on
their tickets?

Come on - there is a limit to what any of us can expect in terms of how
well we are treated when we arrive in a foreign land for all sorts of
issues. As English speakers we are really spoilt rotten as so many
systems have some level of English signage and publicity. While it is
good that countries make an effort to accommodate visitors it is also
true that visitors should be prepared to make a bit of effort as well -
it's why I always try to learn and speak some of the local language.
People appreciate the fact that you make an effort.

TfL are going to retail Oyster abroad to aid the tourist market so I
think the concerns have been heard. It will be interesting to see what
approach they take.

You also can't apply this to purchasers of out-boundary through
tickets on LUL and cross-London tickets, which I believe are also
indirectly being hit by these punitive fares.

Now here I would agree with you if it is the case that the LU cash fares
are being used for summation purposes. They traditionally were but I
would find it somewhat extraordinary if £3 is being added each way for
cross London transfer purposes.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!