asdf wrote:

On 8 Oct 2006 10:14:02 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

Bear in mind that when you go outside your Travelcards zonal
validity...

*if* you have your Gold Card Travelcard loaded on your Oyster card and

*if* you're only travelling on the Tube/DLR/NR routes where Oyster
Pay-as-you-go (PAYG) is accepted

...then depending upon what zones your Gold Card Travelcard covers in
many cases it'll be cheaper to just use your Oyster card to cover the
excess fare.

You can't do this - if your annual season does not include at least a
Z1-6 Travelcard, if you buy a Gold Card discounted Travelcard for
anyone accompanying you, you must also buy one for yourself (even if
you're not going outside your zones).

(See the National Fares Manual, section F:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...4_Common_F.pdf )


You've misunderstood my point because I didn't make myself at all clear
enough. My comments were in the context of a Gold Card holder
travelling alone.

If one is travelling alone (i.e. *not* travelling together with
accompanying adults who are benefiting from your Gold Card discount),
then *if* one is using the Tube/DLR it is almost certainly cheaper for
the holder of a Gold Card Travelcard loaded on an Oyster to just use
the PAYG element to cover their excess fare automatically rather than
buying a separate all-zones Travelcard. Thus I was just trying to
demonstrate the usefulness of an Oyster card to Nicholas over a paper
ticket when it comes to going outside the zonal validity of one's
Travelcard.

Of course if one day he were to be travelling extensively all around
London on National Rail, who mostly don't accept Oyster PAYG, then
buying a discounted all-zones Day Travelcard would be useful.

That said he may well prefer to stick with SWT's paper tickets as he
might get the 5% charter discount when renewing his Gold Card, plus SWT
give holders 6 free weekend tickets as well.

Of course if one is travelling with others then the Gold Card holder
needs to buy a discounted all-zones Day Travelcard for themselves as
well, unless their Gold Card Travelcard covers Z1-6 already. Apols for
the confusion


This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such
circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than
not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted
Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket
offices.


I think there is a logic to it - those accompanying a Gold Card holder
must have tickets that exactly mirror the holders (the "mirroring
rule", to coin a phrase), unless part of the route is already covered
by the Gold Card holders season ticket.

If the rules were changed they'd either:

(1) Have to allow the accompanying adults to have a discounted Day
Travelcard that exactly matched the holders Travelcard - so for example
a Z2&3 Day Travelcard would have to be created just for those
accompanying a Gold Card holder, which would be incongruous with the
pricing structure of Day Travelcards. TfL would not agree to this as it
would mess things up.

(2) Have to allow holders of less than all-zone Gold Card Travelcards
to purchase discounted all-zone Travelcards for accompanying adults
anyway, despite it breaking the "mirroring rule". This is what you seem
to suggest. As well as breaking the NR fares "mirroring rule", I think
TfL would object to this at it would mean that many people would choose
this over other ticketing methods and it would have revenue
implications.


Bear in mind that the Gold Card discount scheme is one that was created
by Network SouthEast (NSE) and was designed for the benefit of the
railway, not LT/TfL. Indeed there was a period after it was introduced
when London Transport issued annual Travelcards were *not* issued as
Gold Cards - they were only only issued by NSE for a while - though in
time LU started issuing them also.

The agreement between the railways and LT/TfL - that only all-zones
Travelcards benefit from railcard reductions - reflects the fact that
it's really aimed at people outside of London buying out-boundary
Travelcards (e.g. Brighton to zones 1-6), as opposed to purchases
within London. I suspect one reason that the discounted all-zones
Travelcard exist in the first place is to maintain a logical fares
structure - if they did not exist an out-boundary Potters Bar to zones
1-6 railcard discounted Travelcard might be cheaper than an in-boundary
one.

Also one should note that TfL's aim is getting people who're travelling
wholly within London onto using Oyster, rather than paper tickets.