On 22 Oct 2006 16:42:34 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
wrote:
The cheap day return fares are completely pointless though as a
travelcard would be cheaper. So the actual price would be £4.90
for CJ-FP and £6.30 for Orp-WH.
Clapham Junction - Finsbury Park should really be £4.30 - a Z2-6
ODTC (CJ to Highbury and Islington - perhaps changing at Willesden
X, then Victoria Line)
According to the TfL Journey Planner:
Clapham Junction - Vauxhall, then Victoria Line to Finsbury Park: 31 -
37 minutes.
Clapham Junction - Willesden J.(or Richmond) - Highbury & Islington,
then Victoria Line to Finsbury Park: 57 - 83 minutes.
On that basis, the natural route is definitely via zone 1.
I agree.
If one wanted to go the West London Line - North London Line - Victoria
Line route avoiding zone 1 then the theoretical Train/Tube CDR would
cost £5.80, so the off-peak zones 2-6 Day Travelcard at £4.30 is what
one would actually buy.
What would be interesting is whether a plain-vanilla *single*
Train/Tube ticket could actually be issued for that same journey. The
single Train/Tube fare for zones 2&3 is £3.40 - could one actually buy
this for a journey to Finsbury Park from Clapham Junction? I guess it
would merely show "U23" as the destination - but would it be issued as
"route via Willesden Junction"? Would anyone of the ticket office staff
actually sell this ticket to a punter?
I doubt very much that the ticket would be issued to U23. One of the
main issues with this upcoming change is that it is still an station to
station ticket with a route - it is not issued to a zone and zonal
designations only apply to LU only destinations or travelcard tickets.
I once tried to purchase a priv single from West Brompton to Blackhorse
Road for a NR only journey via Willesden Junc / Gospel Oak. A slightly
insane way to make the trip but I really did not fancy the tube that
afternoon. The LU booking office was unable to issue beyond Willesden
Junction. I queried this with our fares people as I had anticipated that
the WLL service might have inspired a better range of bookings -
regrettably not. As I hate rebooking en route and hate Willesden
Junction in particular - the most convenient office is never open so you
miss your connections - I opted to go by tube that afternoon. It did
strike as odd to have TfL sponsored peak hour through trains from
Clapham Junction right round to Stratford but with no ability to buy a
ticket for such a service!
I doubt very much that the upcoming change to zonally based *prices*
will result in any great expansion of available routes. This will
probably mean the bias to route via Zone 1 on the basis of faster
journey time will remain with the resultant higher prices. If there was
to be a wholesale move to zonally based destinations and prices then
life becomes too complex too quickly. I expect the TOCs will wait to see
if the demand for particular routes increases and then they may
programme in those fare and destination combinations. TfL may also
introduce a wider range of bookings when the NLR concession starts but
they'd need at least a year to work it through.
As others have clearly identified routing is going to be a big issue for
Oyster and I cannot see how a policy of intermediate validation at
interchanges (if people had to change, of course) would work. I did use
the HK example of this where you had the chance to process your SV
ticket in a validator on the interchange corridor when changing from the
Island Line to the Eastern Harbour crossing - this added value to your
ticket so that when the higher fare (based on the cross harbour tunnel
route) was deducted you effectively got a discount. I don't believe
this facility lasted very long and has not been offered with Octopus
smartcards. Given the confusion in London about the most basic aspects
of PAYG the use of validation to identify what route you were taking
would probably be a step too far and also be open to abuse. Goodness
knows how charging is going to work with the push to shift people on to
orbital services and the existence of a premium charge to travel via the
centre!
--
Paul C
Admits to working for London Underground!