On 11 Dec, 02:13, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mizter T wrote:
On 10 Dec, 21:39, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote:

Does anyone know for sure what's happening in terms of trains and buses?

If you look at the page for Norwich
http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...07_engineering...
it shows the buses from Colchester to Liverpool St given by the NR planner.

I guess One are trying to spread the load over different routes
although it seems a bit sneaky to not tell people about all the
possible alternatives.

I came across a similar situation a few years back on a Norwich to
London journey. Information gleaned from two calls to NRE, a
consultation of the NR WAP site and a conversation with someone else
doing that journey resulted in me being confused!

I though we were to get tipped out of the train at Ingatestone (or was
it Shenfield - I can't remember!), on to a bus to a station closer
somewhere else, then back on a train to get into Liverpool Street. In
fact when I got to Ingatestone all the London-bound passengers were
herded on to a coach direct to Liverpool Street. I think I could have
got a bus then got back on the train, but I opted for the easy way.

Not surprised. This sounds like an all-too-typical British railway
experience!

Some of the information on the National Rail website - specifically
the planned engineering works page (under the service bulletins
heading) - is terrible. I came across an example fairly - I think it
was concerning weekend disruption to FCC Thameslink cross-London
services and the subsequent changes, but it was incredibly confusing,
and the accompanying blurb and map and details of bus replacements was
incomprehensible. It wasn't the first time I saw this either.

People bitch about inaccurate or conflicting information given by the
NRE call centre, but the call centre staff will be working on the
basis of this sometimes terrible and confusing information provided -
i.e. they'll be looking at the very same stuff - so I don't blame them
for not always knowing or understanding what's going on.


So the OP might have to be on the ball when they get to Ingatestone if
they want to get to Newbury Park. Presumably, technically speaking if he
wants to get on the rail replacement bus to Newbury Park tube station
he'd need a rail ticket valid for at least some of the journey beyond
Ingatestone - but I doubt anyone would check his ticket before they let
him on the bus.

I'd have one anyway, seeing as how i want to get to Swindon at the end of
it.

tom


Yes - I did think that just after I'd posted it - but then I thought
of a complication... but I've just resolved it!

Your ticket from East Angular will of course get you as far as
Liverpool Street on the Central line. You will also presumably have an
inclusive cross-London transfer, as indicated by a Maltese cross on
your ticket (or perhaps even a separately issued ticket for the cross-
London Underground journey)...

But cross-London LU journeys are for passengers making a transfer
between London mainline termini - and Lancaster Gate is not a mainline
terminus, not do I think it counts as one. Whether

But I was quite unsure of whether a Liverpool Street to Lancaster Gate
journey would count as a cross-London transfer - as Lancaster Gate
isn't a terminus station. But after rummaging around the Natonal Fares
Manual and when I was just about to give up I found the list - it's in
Section A, on page A4 [1] - and top-marks to those who decide on
these rules, as Lancaster Gate is indeed on the list.

And the list is actually pretty sensible - the rule is simply this:
"Tickets displaying the 'cross-London' marker are valid for travel
between any two of the following stations appropriate to the route of
the through rail journey being made."

Valid transfers thus include Stratford to Lancaster Gate or even
Ealing Broadway, Lewisham or Greenwich to Stratford (via DLR),
Tottenham Hale to Victoria, Richmond to Paddington (or indeed Euston
or KXSP), Vauxhall to Euston/KXSP, Elephant & Castle to Marylebone,
West Hampstead to Waterloo or London Bridge...

The possibilities aren't endless, but they are plentiful. Wacky
changes via Upminster are even possible (though perhaps a reasonable-
ish choice for someone with impaired mobility or luggage full of gold
bars), as well as the rather more sane inclusion of Southwark tube
station for Waterloo East.

Some stations have fallen off the list - I've a vague recollection of
having read past uk.r discussions on this issue - I think the list
used to include Brixton - not that useful, and New Cross - potentially
quite useful, at least until the ELL closes. New Cross Gate is on the
list - if it is still on the list in January then I guess a National
Rail ticket replete with Maltese cross would be valid on the
replacement buses and also the Jubilee line and DLR. I can foresee
potential difficulties with using such a ticket in practice!

All in all an interesting list, one that I'd seen before but perhaps I
hadn't properly appreciated it's, er, 'artisanship'.


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[1] National Fares Manual - Section A (PDF)
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...7_Common_A.pdf

National Fares Manual - section listings
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passen...s/manuals.html