On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, lonelytraveller wrote:

If it was right under the circle platforms, then it would probably be in
the same place as the victoria line running tunnels just before the
platforms.

The Victoria platforms are two level above the Northern ones; do the
tunnels dive so quickly to the west that there isn't room for a set of
platforms next to the Northern line? I'd be surprised if that was true.

And how would you get an escalator anywhere without it hitting the
victoria line running tunnels (if heading east or west) or the northern
line platforms (if heading north)?

This is tricky, yes - i think you couldn't do a direct link to the ticket
hall. Things i can think of:

- Bring the escalators up to the south of the Circle line, and join the
southern end of the shallow-level passageway that runs from the ticket
hall to the Circle platforms, rather than the ticket hall itself. This is
not a great idea: it means changes from the Chelsea-Hackney to the deep
lines involve coming up four levels and then going back down, via the
not-very-large Circle line passageway. I also don't know how this would
work with respect to gatelines. I'm also not sure how the recent works
have changed the situation in the maps, so this might be totally
implausible. You could do something similar, but instead of joining the
existing passageway, run a second one parallel to it, over the Circle line
and into the ticket hall behind the gateline, but it's still a long
change.

- Link the Chelsea-Hackney platform to the concourse at the southern end
of the Piccadilly platforms, a one-level change. You'd extend the
Piccadilly concourse south across the northbound Northern tunnel (digging
through the wall between the stairs up to the Victoria and the top of the
escalator down to the Northern), then have steps or an escalator down to
the CH platforms. This also provides a one-up, one-down route to the
Northern line, and a two-up route to the Victoria line, so interchanges
would be really easy. But it means the escalators up from the Picc are how
handling all the passengers from the Northern, Picc and CH lines! Possibly
more escalators could be added here.

- Link the CH platform to the Victoria concourse by similar means.
Threading a two-level escalator up between both the Victoria and
Piccadilly lines might be impossible, though - it looks just about doable
on the map, but i don't know.

- Have an escalator coming up three levels immediately to the south of the
Victoria tunnels, which would finish just above them; from there, a short
passageway crossing over the Victoria tunnels, then another escalator up
to the ticket hall. The problem here is the Circle line - the first
escalator might need to emerge, er, into it. Which wouldn't work. If there
isn't enough vertical space between the Victoria and Circle lines, this
wouldn't work. If there was, this would also be a really easy way to
connect to the Circle line - you have a little concourse underneath the
eastern end of the Circle line station, with steps up and west to the
Circle platforms, and up and north to the ticket hall (through the south
wall).

The combination of the escalator to a sub-Circle concourse, with steps up
to the Circle platforms and ticket hall, and the steps up to the
Piccadilly concourse would give you a pretty direct route to all the other
LU platforms and the ticket hall.

KX Thameslink is far to the south east of the other platforms;

Well, east, anyway. The station building is 150-odd metres east of the
junction of York Road and Euston Road; that junction is very roughly the
eastern end of the Northern line platforms, and the western end of the
Victoria platforms.

Its further than the end of the victoria line - the connecting tunnels
are very long, and only just reach the far end of the KX thameslink
platforms.

The *far* end? I'm afraid i've never been down there (and now never will)
- do you mean the end nearest KX, or furthest from it?

If the Chelsea-Hackney platforms were to the east, like the Victoria
platforms, a link to the old Thameslink station at their eastern end would
be quite plausible. You'd have a link to the 1960s ticket hall,

How? There isn't any room to fit another connection in. It can't head
through the south wall of the ticket hall because it would bisect the
fleet river and the circle line running tunnels, and if it heads through
the north wall its going in completely the wrong direction - it would
basically meet up with the northern ticket hall tunnels.

East wall! Between the Victoria and Piccadilly escalators. No, there
probably isn't room.

But if you dig through the south wall, there's enough room before the
Circle line to accommodate a new escalator heading east, beside the
Victoria escalator. Or some steps down to a concourse beneath the Circle
platforms, as i mention above.

perhaps the Circle platforms, at the western end.

The problem with that is that the only way it can go is south or north
from those platforms, because directly underneath them, and to the east
and west of underneath as well, is the victoria line running tunnel.

AIUI, not quite - the Victoria tunnels are a touch to the north. Steps
down from the Circle line platforms (not sure where you'd put them - at
the east end, on either side of the steps going up?) would miss the
Victoria tunnels.

I've always wondered why they never built the victoria line platforms
there instead - it would have allowed better connections to the other
lines - perhaps there's an additional obstruction around there as well.

It looks like the Victoria tubes curve northwards west of the platforms;
if they didn't want the platforms to be curved, they'd have had to bulge
out more to the south of King's Cross, which maybe they didn't want - as
you, say, maybe there's an obstruction.

You might also manage a link to the Victoria or Piccadilly platforms at
that end - indeed, the only way to get to the ticket hall might be a
link up to the Victoria concourse,

The problem with that is there is already an obstruction at the west end
of the Victoria line concourse - the escalators. You can't remove them
to put in a connection to the chelsea-hackney; it would be self-
defeating. And if you put it much further along the concourse you
basically have it facing the wrong direction - it forces people to use
the victoria line platforms themselves just to reach the ticket hall,
which is a recipe for congestion nightmares.

You'd widen the concourse at the foot of the escalators, so that people
could walk round them, on to a set of steps going down. There's just about
room for this.

The Piccadilly platforms are even worse - they have escalators to the
ticket hall AND the northern line at that end - the congestion there is
already atrocious, so even if you managed to find a gnats breadth in
which to place the escalators to the chelsea-hackney you'd jam the
entire station due to the congestion.

I agree that it would be unwise to make this the only route up from the
CH. It would be a useful way to do interchange, though, and i think it
could be done. You might need to remodel the Victoria staircase a little
bit.

The major advances in civilization are processes that all but wreck the
societies in which they occur. -- Alfred North Whitehead

Like Solon?

Like everything from the invention of agriculture through to the extension
of the East London Line!

tom

--
Jim-Jammity Jesus Krispy Kreme Christ on a ****-rocket!