On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:54:19 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

And for me that's the issue. I like Routemasters but their time is
gone. I cannot see for a moment how hundreds of millions could be spent
on reviving an old bus design.

Well there's the cost issue that's true, but the basic problem is the
Routemaster has several features that a) are not duplicated on the
replacement buses, particularly the ability to jump off between stops, open
platform that prevents it from getting too hot inside and onboard staff who
gave reassurance; and b) have been incorporated into road and bus stop
planning - e.g. the Liverpool Street to Tottenham bendy that takes forever
because of the over frequent bus stops that were placed for Routemasters or
the narrows built into roads that bendies have problems navigating.

I think it would be extremely doubtful that any replacement Routemaster
would be allowed to have an open platform no matter what is shown on
Autocar's sketches. I doubt it would pass health and safety checks and
there may well be insurance problems with such a design given the
relatively poor accident record of the Routemaster. Any before anyone
screams about bendy buses being unsafe I said relatively poor not
"horrendously unsafe" as others are wont to claim.

You're obviously referring to the 149. I confess I have not seen it in
the absolute height of the peak in the City but I do remember when the
149 was double deck OPO. Buses would literally sit for 5-8 minutes at
somewhere like Liverpool St as the driver could never get the doors shut
as the queue was never ending. With the bendy buses they do manage a
quick get away on other parts of the route and I've honestly not seen
any problems up at the Tottenham - Stoke Newington section. I've also
travelled on the 73 from Tottenham into town in the peaks and that's
much twistier than the 149 and the buses seem to do OK to me. I confess
I like bendy buses so perhaps I'm a bit biased but as crowd shifters I
think they do a decent job.

I imagine there will be some thinning out of buses on the Kingsland Road
when the ELLX opens anyway but I don't see bus stops being removed -
there'd be too much of an outcry. The legacy of short gaps between stops
may actually be from trolleybus days rather than the Routemaster era.

What could address some of these problems would be more flexibility on the
part of drivers and/or the training - e.g. allowing passengers to be able to
escape the buses when on a scorching day they're stuck in traffic only 200
metres from the bus stop. It's these kind of things that make people want
the Routemaster back. Yes there's nostalgia for the bus but if the modern
buses were doing as good a job at meeting passenger requirements then demand
for the return would be less.

To be fair to bus drivers they are in a bind when it comes to traffic
jams. They have legal duties placed on them with respect to passenger
safety and they are clearly told not to open doors between stops. Now
clearly if the roads are jammed solid and nothing is moving and a safe
step to the pavement is possible many will do the sensible thing and
allow people off. The occasional jobsworth may not but they are working
within what are generally sensible rules and it would only take one
accident for them to be stuck. Passengers can help by ensuring that if
they do step off that they actually look to see if there are
obstructions or possibly a cyclist sneaking up the inside. That would
reassure drivers that the passenger is taking some responsibility too.

Another one that springs to mind are pushchairs. On modern buses owners of
toddler tractors seem to assume they have a God Given Right to the limited
open space and that anyone in that space for whatever reason can be simply
shoved aside (more than once I've had my shopping almost rammed) and battles
ensue when there isn't enough space to go round. I can't recall the battles
occurring on the Routemaster because it was clear they had to be folded.

I could rant on about buggies for a long time but let's just say I agree
with your comments. The problem with the new Routemaster design is that
it is low floor, wider (the aisle would be accessible by buggies) and
would have lots of lovely space at the front of the lower deck complete
with its own door. I would envisage you'd have exactly the same
expectations of access from buggy wielding parents as on "normal" low
floor buses but with the added excitement of them being able to argue
with a conductor as well as with other buggy toting parents and the
other passengers. In such circumstances I don't see the buses actually
moving off the stop while the rowing continues.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!