On Jan 22, 5:54*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Mizter T wrote:
On 20 Jan, 20:12, Mr Thant
wrote:
Mwmbwls wrote:

*The 1974 London Rail Study
believed the cost benefit case to be weak and so Camberwell like
sleeping beauty nodded off until most recently in 2006

Tim O'Toole mentioned it in a Time Out interview last year:
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...line-extenstio...

Pure rumour says the plan involves the Hayes branch.

I'm not so sure that the travellers on the Hayes branch would really
want it - they already have a 4tph service, two of those being fast from
Ladywell to London Bridge (which is an advantage for those who wish to
get into town quicker, though a disadvantage for those who want Lewisham
either in its own right or for connections including the DLR to the
Docklands).

Indeed. Those wanting London Bridge or the City would have to change at
Lewisham. Or Elephant, after they've sat through some number of additional
stops. The change at Lewisham would have to be pretty painless for this to
work, and there would have to be enough capacity on that line for it.

Would the Bakerloo service intermingle with other services? The Bakerloo
would presumably have to intermingle with freight trains on the line
from Peckham Rye to Lewisham, which could present safety and reliability
issues (though many of the freights do run late or at night). Even if
there was a new separated route constructed through Lewisham for the
Bakerloo to reach the Hayes branch, it would still have to share tracks
with other services from Peckham Rye (if that is indeed where it
surfaced) to the junction just past Nunhead.

I had the idea it was to be a tunnel from Elephant and Castle all the way
to Lewisham, surfacing south of there, from where the Hayes branch is
separate from all other lines (one of the striking things about that
branch that makes it so attractive for tubulation). That would mean it was
an entirely segregated route, and so there were no worries about
intermingling, freight, safety, performance pollution, etc. Plus, it would
reduce conflicts and release capacity on the surface lines.

If you draw a straight line from Elephant to Lewisham, it goes pretty much
along the Old Kent Road; this is a very densely populated area that's very
poorly served by railways, so it would be a great route for a new tube
line, regardless of where it went past Lewisham. You run via stations at
Bricklayers Arms, Thomas a Becket aka Albany Road aka Southernwood Retail
Park aka Burgess Park, Canal Bridge aka Rotherhithe New Road aka Cantium
Retail Park, Queen's Road Peckham, New Cross Gate, Deptford Bridge,
Lewisham. Or something like that.

If it did surface at Peckham Rye, there may be space to four-track from
there to Lewisham: you have to take a house, a car-park, lots of unused
land, dig out some cuttings and build up some embankments, and widen some
bridges, but it is doable.

I'm just not quire sure how it would all work in practice - and it
certainly seems like there'd be many potential pitfalls in taking the
Bakerloo all the way put to Hayes.

Certainly true.

Don't get me wrong - I'm very much in favour of extending the Bakerloo,
I just wonder if this Hayes talk is merely people grasping for a wider
plan which would justify its extension. I think it'd be a great success
even if it was just extended to Camberwell, with an intermediate station
on the Walworth Road - and could even go further south to East Dulwich
(not just the station but into the heart of the neighbourhood), or east
to Peckham. The line's central/southern section has the spare capacity,
and has the unfulfilled potential.

Quite. I think the above route to Lewisham would be a huge boon to Peckham
residents, whether it went on to Hayes or not!

tom


I've long thought that extending the Bakerloo to Lewisham would be
very useful in itself. If it was to extend to Hayes, which is already
signalled to NR standards, wouldn't it be possible to intermingle on
the lines of Queens Park to Harrow?

Maybe the peak Cannon Street service would need to be reduced or
curtailed.

Otherwise, like the distinctly bad DLR idea, it removes the fairly
fast route to London Bridge.