On 22 Jan, 10:18, Mwmbwls wrote:
On Jan 21, 9:14 pm, Jamie Thompson wrote:

I was looking at the South London options for developing the network
the other day, and it seems to me that the Hayes branch is pretty
much the only option for the DLR, so it should probably go to
that, with the Bakerloo going elsewhere, though going through
Lewisham is probably still a good idea.

I am not sure that the DLR would offer sufficient capacity down the
Hayes corridor - the South of London RUS is now proposing 6 twelve car
trains per hour in the peak. Plans for the original Fleet line to link
Lewisham with Fenchurch Street were abandoned in 1977 and at that
time
an extension of the East London Line from New Cross to Lewisham and
from Shoreditch to Liverpool Street were proposed instead. Thereafter
long grass grew and memories faded. Under the current proposals, I
have always felt that New Cross, like Elephant and Castle, is too
close to the City to be a viable terminus and that an ELL phase 3
extension to relieve Lewisham, possibly going on to Hayes would be a
good idea. It would at some point be necessary to tackle the four
coach constraint limit on the Canada Water - Whitechapel section of
the ELL but I believe that is going to be inevitable anyway sooner or
later. The London Overground proposal already contains links to the
"Not quite Outer Circle" core route from the east from Barking,and the
north from Watford and suggestions were made for a western extension
from Wimbledon to Clapham Junction. Linking the south east quadrant in
a similar manner could be worth considering.

Mwmbwls - "Renowned Builders of Castles in the Air to the Gentry" -
our motto - "Everything will be fine until you try to move in."


Interesting ideas, in particular the notion of the ELLX continuing
from New Cross down to Hayes which I do quite like!

I suppose one argument in favour of the terminus at New Cross is that
during times of disruption on the Croydon/Crystal Palace 'branch' it
would help to provide the rest of the line with a reliable, if
degraded, service - and passengers from Southeastern services could
still change onto it at New Cross.

I'm not so sure of your certainty that ELLX trains are going to get
much longer than four carriages. If Wapping and Rotherhithe were
closed and with judicious use of SDO and perhaps some platform level
works, perhaps six carriages might be possible - though without major
works I'm not sure how feasible this would be. I don't know whether
passive provision is being made at the new ELLX stations for longer
trains. Of course whether the Hayes branch could get by with four car
ELLX trains, even if they were just part of the mix, is questionable
(as you implicitly seem to acknowledge).

What's this ' "Not quite Outer Circle" core route from the east from
Barking' of which you speak - it would involve taking c2c aka London,
Tilbury and Southend trains up the so-called GOBLIN to Gospel Oak and
beyond?