On 3 Apr, 22:03, MIG wrote:

On Apr 3, 7:44 pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 3 Apr, 14:23, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

MIG wrote:

(snip)

Why can't
they provide them for that purpose on all LU platforms so that you
don't have to go all the way to the exit at the point when you realise
that you are going to use PAYG to complete an unplanned journey (or
extension of a paper travelcard as it happens)?

Because that would be too convenient for customers?

No. It would create plentiful opportunities for people who's
destination station was ungated (or indeed for those willing to take
more of a risk their origination station was ungated) to abuse the
system by underpaying their fare, by staring or finishing their
journey short.

Oh come off it. Are you saying that people determined to avoid a fare
wouldn't think it was worth the effort of going to the exit to touch
in, while those trying to pay the right fare should have obstacles put
in their place? This really ain't joined-up.


I won't come off it and I am thinking in a joined up way. If I'm
reading you right I think you're saying that such people would go to
the gateline and then touch on a standalone reader next to the manual
gate. Well, that would undoubtedly look like suspicious behaviour, and
said person might well have to deal with the station staff on the
gateline who are normally present next to these readers (and new
installations on LO at least that have wide-aisle gates don't have
separate manual gates and hence don't have standalone readers). Sure,
they might well get away with it but it would look pretty fishy and
hence would require some 'balls', and it is also fairly inconvenient
as they'd have to go out of their way up from the platform.

You speak about 'determined' people, I'm more talking about a somewhat
more casual flavour of n'er do wells - those who'd try and get away
with it if they can manage.

Nonetheless the issue I've outlined will unfortunately rear it's head
as and when PAYG rolls out on National Rail with its plethora of
ungated stations, and people change at an intermediate station that is
fitted with standalone readers for interchange traffic. Access to
standalone readers within fare paid areas thus somewhat blunts the max
cash fare 'penalty' disincentive to those who fail to touch-out/in
given that they might be able to fool the system that they have
started or finished their journey when they haven't.

There are a number of ways that this can be tackled, which in essense
boil down to (a) gating more stations - something that I think
passengers who use urban systems in this country are generally
supportive of even if out friend Mr Willms is not, and (b) deploying
ticket checking staff in an intelligent manner (and having more of
them).

I do feel somewhat uneasy about discussing this whole issue on a
public forum, and I have tried to avoid spelling things out precisely
- however as I said above such things can all ultimately be fathomed
out by people without any secret knowledge, and some things may become
more apparent as people make use of the system even if only through
accidental misuse.

I would lastly add that I do always ensure I pay the correct fare and
I do not approve of those who don't.