On 12 Jan, 14:03, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

The other thing to say is that the ES article might have managed to
mangle things up somewhat. However it would appear that SWT is
somehow causing problems here - [...]

The problem may be with journeys that use both SWT and Tube (and indeed
with journeys that might). The present rail & tube fairs are quite
expensive compared with NR only and Tube only are they not ?

They are. They are called 'Tube/Train' fares and are a relatively
recent innovation (though there were other types of through fares
available beforehand) - annoyingly whilst there is a public list of
the 2008 fares I haven't found one of the new 2009 fares.

They are only really any good for single journeys, plus in a whole
number of common scenarios a paper rail ticket plus Oyster PAYG for
the Tube journey works out cheaper.

How 'the system' will deal with combined NR + Tube journeys is one of
the things that is unclear, and yes |'m sure it has been one of the
issues that the TOCs have been negotiating with TfL about.

I don't think one can presume that the existing paper 'Tube/Train'
fares will form the basis for how Oyster PAYG journeys will be charged
- especially given what I said above about how combining a single rail
fare plus Oyster PAYG for the Tube can be cheaper than a through 'Tube/
Train' fare.


SWT may suspect they will get less income than in the paper tickets era
since with paper it is clearer who sold the ticket and whose route was
used.

I'm quite sure that SWT and the other TOCs have been full of such
concerns, and that the commercial negotiations with regards to revenue
apportionment have reached a byzantine level of mind-numbing
complexity! This is in a sense the RSP's ORCATs being devised all
over again, though perhaps with participants who are rather wary of
each other and their motivations.

This could be accentuated by the TOCs not really trusting TfL as a
fair broker (or fair broker) in their revenue apportionment role,
whilst TfL is cautious of the unbridled commercial ethos of the TOCs
in pushing for as much as they can possibly get.

I dare say some of the negotiators may never want to see a spreadsheet
again!