On Jul 11, 1:51*pm, Ulrich Neumann wrote:
Hello,
I am thinking of staying in Watford for a couple of days to do some
sightseeing in London. So each morning/evening I will travel once
to/from London zone 1. During the day I will probably travel a lot
within zone 1/2.
After looking at the TfL site I've come up with the following plan:
1. Get an Oyster PAYG card
2. Each morning touch in at Watford Junction
3. Take the train to Willesden Junction and get off there
4. Touch out at Willesden Junction and go through the exit
This should cost me £1.10 during off-peak times.
5. Go back inside the station, touch in, travel to somewhere in zone 1,
touch out
6. Spend the day travelling extensively within zone 1/2 while
sightseeing (touching in/out at every ride)
This should cost me £5.10 during off-peak times.
7. In the evening travel back to Watford Junction via Willesden Junction
like I did in the morning
This should cost me £1.10 during off-peak times.
Will this work? What alternative do you suggest if my plan won't work?
Thanks.
That's clever lateral thinking, I'll certainly give you that! Just to
clarify for those who might not have followed this, Ulrich's concept
is to combine...
* 2x £1.10 Watford Jn to Willesden Jn off-peak fares (the peak fare
being £3.50), with
* with a zones 1&2 PAYG off-peak cap of £5.10.
Bringing it to a grand total of £7.30.
It's clever as Willesden Jn is the first station he'd reach that's in
zone 2 (it's actually a zone 2/3 'border' station, but the effect is
the same), and also the last station for which the off-peak fare from
Watford Jn would be £1.10 - at the next station along, Kensal Green,
the fare from Watford Jn rises to £2 off-peak (£4 peak).
Would it work using a single Oyster card? I'd say yes it would, so
long as one did exit through a gate at Willesden Jn and then re-enter
through a gate (gates are good as they're unidirectional - i.e. they
explicitly tell the system whether the passenger is exiting or
entering the system).
But I can't guarantee that! There is the possibility that the system
might consider that Ulrich was continuing his original journey - i.e.
it might re-open the original journey from Watford Jn and continue
that. However I don't see why it should though - by exiting and re-
entering at Willesden, the system should close the first journey and
then open a brand new one (this has certainly been my experience when
I've exited and then re-entered the *same* station).
One important thing to note is that the £1.10 off-peak fare for the
return journey from Willesden Jn to Watford Jn is not available
between 16:00 to 19:00 Monday to Friday - during these times the £3.50
peak fare applies (though on the Euston to Watford line it only
applies in the northbound direction in the evening peak) - so Ulrich
would need to ensure he touched-in at Willesden Jn for his return
journey back to Watford Jn after 19:00.
I have another idea for Ulrich too. What (I think) he's trying to do
is to avoid the £13 off-peak PAYG cap for travel in "Zones 1-9 plus
Watford Junction", as shown on page 15 of the "Guide to fares and
tickets (including Zones 7-9 plus Watford Jn)", which is available
here (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-junction.pdf
As an alternative, might I suggest that he begins and ends his journey
at Watford High Street station instead, which is in zone 8 - if he
were to do this then he could benefit from the £8.50 zones 1-9 PAYG
cap, as shown on page 9 of the above guide. He would also then be able
to travel south from Watford High St to Harrow & Wealdstone on the
stopping London Overground (LO) service, before transferring there to
the half-hourly fast London Midland (LM) service to Euston (which
doesn't stop anywhere else!). If he were to do this, he wouldn't have
to limit himself to returning after 19:00 either. (Though there's a
lot to see in London, so I imagine he might!)
Doing it this way works out at £1.20 more expensive than the way
Ulrich came up with, but provides for a faster journey from Watford to
London.
~ ~ ~
There's another way I just thought of - it's a variation on Ulrich's
original idea. This would be to...
* Catch any train (slow LO service, or fast LM or Southern service)
from Watford Jn to Harrow & Wealdstone (H&W), then exit through the
gates - this journey would cost £1.10 off-peak (or £2.50 peak).
* Then re-enter the station through the gates, get a fast train to
Euston (or indeed a slow LO train or the Bakerloo line if he wanted
to), explore all day, then come back to H&W, and exit through the
gates. He would then be subject to a zones 1-6 off-peak PAYG cap at
£7.
* Travel north to Watford Jn on any train - this journey would again
cost £1.10 (though the peak fare of £2.50 would apply between 16:00
and 19:00 Monday to Friday).
That leads to a total of £9.20 - so it's a bit more expensive again.
~ ~ ~
Why haven't I considered breaking the journey at Bushey, where there
is a half-hourly fast LM service to Euston, you may ask? Well, because
AFAIAA, there are no gates at Bushey - and I suspect the Oyster
validators there are set up in 'interchange mode', which means that
they wouldn't definitively close a journey - therefore Ulrich would be
charged for a through Watford Jn to Euston journey (and capped
accordingly) even if he did stop off at Bushey station.
There is one Bushey based possibility though. Ulrich could catch the
142 bus from Watford to Bushey - this is a TfL bus and so accepts
Oyster PAYG, and starts from the bus station outside Watford Jn before
working its way through Watford to Bushey, the ultimate destination
being Brent Cross Shopping Centre. Any journey made on this or any
other London bus would simply contribute towards *any* PAYG cap - as
London buses don't do zones - in which case Ulrich would simply end up
paying the £7 PAYG off-peak cap for zones 1-9. Important note - Ulrich
would still need to start his bus journey *after* 09:30 in order to
ensure the bus journey formed part of the off-peak cap.
The 142 bus runs "every 9-13 minutes" during the day, less frequently
in the evening, and takes 10 minutes to get from Watford Jn to Bushey.
To see the simplified timetable, go to the TfL Journey Planner, click
on "Timetables" in the right hand column, then under "Bus timetable -
route number" put in 142 and click on "Get timetable", then select the
direction of travel then the stop you need (Bushey station comes under
"Bushey Rail Station" in the list).
Voila - Watford Jn to Euston plus unlimited travel after 09:30 for £7
instead of £13.
~ ~ ~
One last thing - the devious amongst you will be wondering what
prevents one starting from Watford High Street and going north to
Watford Jn, before reversing direction and travelling south on a fast
LM train to Euston. The answer is... I don't know! I'm sure LM don't
want you to do that, and I suspect it might fall under the category of
'irregular travel', but whether an LM ticket inspector would pick up
on this I don't know. I don't recall any specific instructions at
Watford Jn as to what to do in this situation. I suppose that if you
were to touch on one of the 'interchange validators' *within* Watford
Jn station then that might ensure you paid the full fare - that said,
the way the system works at the moment doesn't provide for "route
based validation" - however that concept is coming in September. So
*at the moment* (for the next month or two) even if you touched on an
'interchange validator' at Watford Jn, you might only be charged for a
Watford High Street to Euston journey, and no ticket inspector could
reasonably have any complaint with what you did. That's something I
might have to try whilst I've still got the chance in the coming
weeks!
Enough Oyster for now! I think I might just have Oysteritus...
(That's a bit too close to a Borisism for my liking... what with his
desire for "Oysterisation"...)