On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:13:41 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

That too, though the stupidity of a TOC that didn't stipulate sunday working
via a rota system in the job contract but relied on workers good will beggars
belief.


The mistake was for TOCs to treat rail staff with the respect that
professional people deserve, and pay them a salary rather than a wage.
The trouble is, as several TOCs have now found to their cost, is that
rail staff lack the basic principles that should be expected of a
profession, and both were and are an ignorant customer-hostile rabble
represented by trade unions that are led by (elected) politically
motivated thugs who will exploit every possible opportunity to cause
trouble.

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:33:59 -0800 (PST)
MIG wrote:
Why? Companies generate wealth, unions just generate trouble and have had
their day and should be dispensed with. They sole purpose seems to be to
extort employers.

Only in the sense that the sole purpose of private companies is to
exploit slave labour.

I think you'll find that it's workers who generate wealth.

Whats this, Marxism For Dummies? What a load of BS. You might want to go and
educate yourself on what real slave labour is like, and not farcially try and
compare it with jobs that people choose to do and get paid money for so doing.

And without private companies and the entreprenuers who start them we'd end up
with a bankrupt, dead end society going nowhere just like the soviet union
ended up as.

B2003

In article , wrote:


And without private companies and the entreprenuers who start them we'd end
up
with a bankrupt, dead end society going nowhere just like the soviet union
ended up as.

If you're so wedded to freedom and capitalism why are you proposing to
take away the freedom of people to withdraw their labour?

E.

On 20 Nov, 15:53, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:33:59 -0800 (PST)

MIG wrote:
Why? Companies generate wealth, unions just generate trouble and have had
their day and should be dispensed with. They sole purpose seems to be to
extort employers.

Only in the sense that the sole purpose of private companies is to
exploit slave labour.

I think you'll find that it's workers who generate wealth.

Whats this, Marxism For Dummies? What a load of BS. You might want to go and
educate yourself on what real slave labour is like, and not farcially try and
compare it with jobs that people choose to do and get paid money for so doing.

And without private companies and the entreprenuers who start them we'd end up
with a bankrupt, dead end society going nowhere just like the soviet union
ended up as.

B2003

At least read what I actually said. I did not in any way claim that
any paid jobs in the railways constitute slave labour. I was making a
"sole purpose" statement which was equivalently extreme to yours.

As it happens, slave labour is the ultimate aim of private companies
if their power is not balanced by the labour having some kind of
representation. In this country it is balanced to some extent, so we
don't have slave labour outside of the industries that exploit
"illegals".

On 20 Nov, 15:29, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:24:15 +0000

Bruce wrote:
What is needed here, and across much of the public service sector, is
a combination of a no-strike deal and compulsory pendulum arbitration
of pay claims. *But it will never happen under Labour, because Labour
doesn't want to upset its Union paymasters.

A good suggestion I heard was that there must be something like a 75%
turnout on a strike ballot vote before any strike can legally go ahead.

B2003

As long as you need the same turnout to get into government, and the
same turnout of MPs to vote oppressive legislation through ... and so
on.

In article ,
(Bruce) wrote:

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:04:59 -0000, "Recliner"
wrote:

As you say, the RMT is one of the more militant unions, and perhaps its
members would remain just as militant even if the union were headed by
someone else. After all, they voted for Crow, and would presumably
elect someone else in his mould if he disappeared -- in effect, they're
in control, not the union leader. Even if the union didn't exist, they
may still call unofficial, wildcat strikes or disrupt the railway in
other ways (rather like the TOCs whose drivers suddenly won't work on
Sundays).

What is needed here, and across much of the public service sector, is
a combination of a no-strike deal and compulsory pendulum arbitration
of pay claims. But it will never happen under Labour, because Labour
doesn't want to upset its Union paymasters.

Not that I would want to be characterised as an apologist for the Unions
or the Labour Party but you seem to have overlooked 12 1/2 years of
contrary evidence to that proposition. Isn't the RMT one of those unions
that has stopped paying Labour for precisely that reason?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

I don't like Bob Crow any more than you do, but I do get fed up
with the repeated misspelling of his name, along with George
Osborne (not Osbourne).

Eek! Now there's a killer combination! What are they doing together?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Nov 20, 9:34*am, wrote:
[Thatcherite nonsense snipped]

No. And that's said as someone who's absolutely not a fan of the RMT's
tactics or leadership.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:56:52 -0600,
wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

I don't like Bob Crow any more than you do, but I do get fed up
with the repeated misspelling of his name, along with George
Osborne (not Osbourne).

Eek! Now there's a killer combination! What are they doing together?



Lunching on a Russian oligarch's yacht, perhaps?

Oh, silly me, that was Peter Mandyperson. ;-)

On Nov 20, 5:46�pm, Bruce wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:56:52 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

I don't like Bob Crow any more than you do, but I do get fed up
with the repeated misspelling of his name, along with George
Osborne (not Osbourne).

Eek! Now there's a killer combination! What are they doing together?

Lunching on a Russian oligarch's yacht, perhaps?

Oh, silly me, that was Peter Mandyperson. �;-)

I heard Crow on the local news this evening - he's again jumping on
the "elf'nsafety" banwagon, regarding track inspections on the Jubilee
Line. Clearly his overpaid members are looking for some more Christmas
shopping time in which to spend their inflated paypackets!

Marc.