In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

I presume the missing Emerson Park line on the last map is a
mistake.

A carefully documented mistake, if so. It is clearly indicated as "Routes
where Oyster cards are NOT valid - National Rail". As it's entirely within
Greater London GOK why.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message
, at
10:25:45 on Mon, 23 Nov 2009, Chris
remarked:
Or is there some microscopic wriggle-room that decides a Heathrow
Connect train is "overground" as far as H&H, but then becomes something
else (surely not "underground, wombling free") thereafter?

There is - from Hayes & Harlington, the service is operated privately
by BAA, not an ATOC company.

Unfortunately, the Minister mentioned "ALL overground services". The BAA
service is not very obviously a not-overground service.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote in
news
In message
, at
10:25:45 on Mon, 23 Nov 2009, Chris
remarked:
Or is there some microscopic wriggle-room that decides a Heathrow
Connect train is "overground" as far as H&H, but then becomes something
else (surely not "underground, wombling free") thereafter?

There is - from Hayes & Harlington, the service is operated privately
by BAA, not an ATOC company.

Unfortunately, the Minister mentioned "ALL overground services". The BAA
service is not very obviously a not-overground service.

An I alone in thinking that the map

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...in-London-Jan-
2010.pdf

is actually rather misleading on this point? It's title is "Oyster rail
services in London" yet Hayes to Heathrow is shown in exactly the same
style as Paddington to Hayes. Likewise the line style doesn't change at
Hayes so a quick glance suggests Oyster will be valid to Slough; yes, there
is a note saying it isn't but the use of (say) a dotted or feint line would
make this much clearer.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:04:31 +0000, Tom Barry
wrote:

To be fair, Mr. Khan got an immediate query from myself saying 'what,
even Heathrow' to which I have, as yet, not had a reply. Minor issue,
really, but (like the Thames Clipper lack of true PAYG integration)
nothing must detract from the great politicians and their PR opportunity.

To be fair, the Thames Clippers are a very expensive operation (given
the large number of crew required) and as such it doesn't surprise me
that they don't come under the cap.

If they were to be "true Travelcard" services, vast amounts of money
would need to be spent on increasing capacity, which wouldn't really
work as a straight frequency increase as it's already the case that
the existing piers are "full", with 2 or 3 boats often meeting in the
same place and having to shuffle around. So realistically, short of
replacing them with much bigger boats[1] and a load more subsidy at a
time cost-cutting is on the agenda, full integration won't and
probably shouldn't happen.

[1] Because of the need for the right number of liferafts etc, you
can't just crush-load them.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:56:25 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Actually, no... The current Anytime (peak) single is £5.00, the Anytime
(peak) return is £9.80, but the Offpeak return is £6.50. So typically, to
get their wonderful reduction they are comparing a return with a single.

Did I read correctly that off-peak singles and returns on paper are
disappearing, thus causing a LUL-style "penalty for not using Oyster"
situation?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

martin wrote

The BBC article[1] quotes the 'Mayor's Transport Spokesman' as saying
that Oyster will offer the cheapest fare available; "the only
exceptions are holders of certain national railcards for whom cheaper
paper tickets for travel on national rail maybe available."

I thought there'd been mention of the appropriate discounted PAYG
fares being available to those with their Railcard loaded onto their
Oystercard?

Can't load a Network SouthEast card, hence the exception.

--
Mike D

Paul Terry wrote

Paul Scott writes

Yes - so by conveniently neglecting to mention the current NR
Offpeak Day
Returns (CDR), they have exaggerated the improvements significantly
IMO...

Oh yes, I agree. The entire process reveals TfL's preoccupation with
single fares and ignores the significant reductions that can be
obtained
with an NR cheap day return.

Hee !

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/Che...s-of-South-Wes
t-Trains-passengers-from-January-2010.aspx

Off peak return tickets withdrawn and replaced by Oyster PAYG off-peak
fares from Jan 2010 =

In line with the Oyster PAYG off-peak fares, there will be a change to
the times when South West Trains' Super Off Peak `turn up and go'
ticket is valid for journeys from London =

--
Mike D

On 24 Nov 2009 00:34:57 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Can't load a Network SouthEast card, hence the exception.

Whyever not?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 24 Nov 2009 00:34:59 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Off peak return tickets withdrawn and replaced by Oyster PAYG off-peak
fares from Jan 2010 =

In line with the Oyster PAYG off-peak fares, there will be a change to
the times when South West Trains' Super Off Peak `turn up and go'
ticket is valid for journeys from London =

So it won't be all that obvious when Oyster is a better deal, and when
PAYG is. And there'll be a whacking fare increase on Saturdays and
Sundays (I'm guessing most weekday fares are below the minimum) for
NSE card holders.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:56:25 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Actually, no... The current Anytime (peak) single is £5.00, the Anytime
(peak) return is £9.80, but the Offpeak return is £6.50. So typically, to
get their wonderful reduction they are comparing a return with a single.

Did I read correctly that off-peak singles and returns on paper are
disappearing, thus causing a LUL-style "penalty for not using Oyster"
situation?

I'm reading it that singles will still be there, but the same price, eg
SWT's release only says that 'offpeak returns are being withdrawn' implying
peak and offpeak singles will still be there.

It would be madness on the 2nd Jan if single paper tickets weren't
available, and they'll have to have a parallel system of paper tickets
anyway for journeys into and out of 'London'.

Paul S