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Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
According to TfL, it should be possible to get certain National
Railcards (such as a Senior Railcard) loaded on to an Oyster card so that a lower daily price cap applies. My wife and I both managed this last year, but our Senior Railcards expired and we had to renew, so we have just realised that we need to renew the loading of the Railcard on to our respective Oyster cards. The problem is that nobody seems to know how to do it. We have tried at tube stations, and at City Thameslink (one of the specifically named National Rail stations said to be able to do it). In all cases the ticket office staff state initially that it cannot be done, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, such as a printout of the relevant web page http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx simply say that they don't know how to do it, even after consulting their supervisors. Has anyone managed to get their price cap reduced by loading a NR railcard on to an Oyster card, and if so what's the secret? I would complain to TfL but cannot work out how to do this on their website without answering a host of pointless questions, such as "date of incident" etc. -- Clive Page |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 28 Nov, 23:09, Clive Page wrote:
According to TfL, it should be possible to get certain National Railcards (such as a Senior Railcard) loaded on to an Oyster card so that a lower daily price cap applies. My wife and I both managed this last year, but our Senior Railcards expired and we had to renew, so we have just realised that we need to renew the loading of the Railcard on to our respective Oyster cards. The problem is that nobody seems to know how to do it. *We have tried at tube stations, and at City Thameslink (one of the specifically named National Rail stations said to be able to do it). *In all cases the ticket office staff state initially that it cannot be done, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, such as a printout of the relevant web pagehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx simply say that they don't know how to do it, even after consulting their supervisors. Has anyone managed to get their price cap reduced by loading a NR railcard on to an Oyster card, and if so what's the secret? I would complain to TfL but cannot work out how to do this on their website without answering a host of pointless questions, such as "date of incident" *etc. -- Clive Page I did it last year at Green Park although it seems like an extensive process as there was an array of buttons that needed to be pressed in order to make it happen. I would e-mail as it's best if TfL know there are major training issues! |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On Nov 28, 11:09*pm, Clive Page wrote:
According to TfL, it should be possible to get certain National Railcards (such as a Senior Railcard) loaded on to an Oyster card so that a lower daily price cap applies. My wife and I both managed this last year, but our Senior Railcards expired and we had to renew, so we have just realised that we need to renew the loading of the Railcard on to our respective Oyster cards. The problem is that nobody seems to know how to do it. *We have tried at tube stations, and at City Thameslink (one of the specifically named National Rail stations said to be able to do it). *In all cases the ticket office staff state initially that it cannot be done, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, such as a printout of the relevant web pagehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx simply say that they don't know how to do it, even after consulting their supervisors. Has anyone managed to get their price cap reduced by loading a NR railcard on to an Oyster card, and if so what's the secret? I would complain to TfL but cannot work out how to do this on their website without answering a host of pointless questions, such as "date of incident" *etc. Clive Page I've done it twice. The first time was at Canary Wharf, and, although I had to fill in a form, worked fine. The second time was at Charing Cross, and took a LOT of explaining what I needed, but once he got it (and I wasn't very confident he did get it) it did work. |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In message , Paul Corfield
writes Clive - if you can let me know which tube stations you tried I can raise this with the relevant Revenue people at LU so they know there are some issues re training and awareness. Given extension of PAYG to NR in the New Year it is likely the volume of such transactions will increase and it makes sense to deal with any inadequacies now. Paul - thanks. I guess you are right about a greater number wanting to do it in the new year. Except that the facility is so well hidden, that probably nobody will try to use it. My wife tried at Lambeth North some time in October - the ticket clerk got my wife to fill in a form and experimented with his machine for some time, then said it wasn't possible. Then at City Thameslink (ok not a TfL station, but explicitly listed on the TfL website as one where you can do this): on 25th Nov around 17:30 the ticket clerk took a photocopy of the printout from your website but could not work out how to do it. He said it probably wasn't possible until January, but he would ask his management for information. She tried around the same time the following night, hoping to see the same man, but he wasn't on duty, and the clerk claimed that it simply wasn't possible at NR stations. A long queue was building up behind her, so she didn't pursue it. That's not a huge sample, of course. But a year ago we managed to get the discount loaded, and though I don't remember the details, it took attempts at several stations before we succeeded. The other issue is that the ability to get a NR Railcard loaded at all and that it gives you a lower daily cap is very well hidden on the TfL websites, and I've never seen it described in printed literature. I would never have known about it if it weren't for this newsgroup. I've just searched the TfL website again, the main leaflet is a 22-page document http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf which says at the foot of page 11: "holders of some National Railcards can get discount off-peak daily price capping" but it doesn't say which railcards, or how you get it. There are lots of fare tables later in the leaflet, but none of them seem to be the relevant ones. Fortunately, because of an earlier thread in this newsgroup, I was able to read http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/6769.aspx but that URL does not seem to be linked from anywhere else on the TfL site (and I've rooted around for some time). I wonder how anyone who does not read this newsgroup is expected to find this document. I also thought that I saw somewhere that the reduced price cap does not apply to travel on buses when using a NR railcard - not all that unreasonable I guess. But I can't find this reference any more, and I haven't the faintest idea how it would apply if you were to use some combination of buses and trains during the day. Regards If you have a local tube station that is convenient then I'm sure we can do something to ensure you get a successful transaction. If you wish to reply off group then my E mail address works. Thanks Paul, but living in Bedfordshire our usual first encounter with the tube is St.Pancras, but the ticket offices there always have such horrendous queues so I'd never bother. I guess we'll try at random tube stations on future trips around London, whenever we have half-an-hour to spare :-). (By the way, my email address at page2.eu also works). -- Clive Page |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In article , (Clive
Page) wrote: In message , Paul Corfield writes Clive - if you can let me know which tube stations you tried I can raise this with the relevant Revenue people at LU so they know there are some issues re training and awareness. Given extension of PAYG to NR in the New Year it is likely the volume of such transactions will increase and it makes sense to deal with any inadequacies now. Paul - thanks. I guess you are right about a greater number wanting to do it in the new year. Except that the facility is so well hidden, that probably nobody will try to use it. My wife tried at Lambeth North some time in October - the ticket clerk got my wife to fill in a form and experimented with his machine for some time, then said it wasn't possible. Then at City Thameslink (ok not a TfL station, but explicitly listed on the TfL website as one where you can do this): on 25th Nov around 17:30 the ticket clerk took a photocopy of the printout from your website but could not work out how to do it. He said it probably wasn't possible until January, but he would ask his management for information. She tried around the same time the following night, hoping to see the same man, but he wasn't on duty, and the clerk claimed that it simply wasn't possible at NR stations. A long queue was building up behind her, so she didn't pursue it. That's not a huge sample, of course. But a year ago we managed to get the discount loaded, and though I don't remember the details, it took attempts at several stations before we succeeded. The other issue is that the ability to get a NR Railcard loaded at all and that it gives you a lower daily cap is very well hidden on the TfL websites, and I've never seen it described in printed literature. I would never have known about it if it weren't for this newsgroup. I've just searched the TfL website again, the main leaflet is a 22-page document http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf which says at the foot of page 11: "holders of some National Railcards can get discount off-peak daily price capping" but it doesn't say which railcards, or how you get it. There are lots of fare tables later in the leaflet, but none of them seem to be the relevant ones. Fortunately, because of an earlier thread in this newsgroup, I was able to read http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/6769.aspx but that URL does not seem to be linked from anywhere else on the TfL site (and I've rooted around for some time). I wonder how anyone who does not read this newsgroup is expected to find this document. I also thought that I saw somewhere that the reduced price cap does not apply to travel on buses when using a NR railcard - not all that unreasonable I guess. But I can't find this reference any more, and I haven't the faintest idea how it would apply if you were to use some combination of buses and trains during the day. I found this at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx, the first hit from a search on the TfL site for "railcard": National Rail Railcard discounts If you hold a National Rail Railcard, you can get an Oyster card and have the Railcard discount entitlement added to it. If you then travel during off-peak hours on Tube, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services, the Oyster daily price cap will be reduced by 34 per cent. National Railcard price capping discounts do not apply if you only travel by bus or tram. However, if you travel by bus or tram as well as Tube, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services, any bus or tram journeys will count towards the daily price cap. This discount is available to holders of the following National Rail Railcards: Disabled Persons HM Forces Senior Young Persons There is then a link to "Check current daily price cap for National Rail Railcard discounts" at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/6769.aspx with the full details, including a pricing table. If you have a local tube station that is convenient then I'm sure we can do something to ensure you get a successful transaction. If you wish to reply off group then my E mail address works. Thanks Paul, but living in Bedfordshire our usual first encounter with the tube is St.Pancras, but the ticket offices there always have such horrendous queues so I'd never bother. I guess we'll try at random tube stations on future trips around London, whenever we have half-an-hour to spare :-). (By the way, my email address at page2.eu also works). As someone who also faces the unbelievable queues at Kings Cross St Pancras my practice is to deal with my Oyster needs at my first destination tube station (usually Westminster or St James's Park but sometimes East Putney). Seems to work for PAYG top up getting change for cash avoiding queues but I've not yet tried to load my Senior Railcard. Must try doing so on Monday. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In article ,
() wrote: There is then a link to "Check current daily price cap for National Rail Railcard discounts" at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/6769.aspx with the full details, including a pricing table. What this also means for Senior and 16-25 Railcard holders is that they will only want to but Day Travelcards from Cambridge if travelling outside zones 1-4 (off-peak). A Day Travelcard costs railcard holders £4.30 more than a London Terminals Off Peak Day Return. The daily cap is £3.80 for zones 1-4 but £4.60 for zones 1-5 or 6. Other TOCs than FCC charge seem to less for Day Travelcards, AIUI (FCC also charge £4.25 from Bedford). For example NXEA charge £3.00 from Colchester while SWT charge £3.25 at Off-Peak rate and only £2.70 Super-Off-Peak from Windsor. However, other stations seem to be inconsistent, e.g. Winchester £4.95 Off-Peak, £2.45 Super-Off-Peak. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Clive,
I had a railcard discount loaded onto my Oyster two years at at Finchley Rd tube, it took less than 5 minutes. Last year I had to get the discount reloaded as my railcard had expired and the oyster discount expires simultaneously. This time I had to fill in a form ( to get my card registered as this was now a prerequisite) and it took the clerk some time to sort it out. I'm not sure what is going to happen this year as my railcard is again up for renewal. I've had lots of problems and heated arguments with LU staff wrt discounted daily caps for Railcard holders - several were 100% adamant that these did not exist, they even showed my the relevant LU leaflets which did not mention them. I told of that the information on caps which listed on their website. There has definitely been a lack of information flow and problems in edifiying staff of all the nuances of Oyster. C |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In message , at 11:50:20 on
Sun, 29 Nov 2009, Paul Corfield remarked: I would hope that the new Northern Ticket Hall at Kings Cross will bring some overall relief to the chaos that has been Kings Cross tube station and its ticket queues. But the chaos is normally caused by having only a fraction of the windows open[1]. If they could be bothered to staff all the windows, the queues would be much shorter. [1] I'm not absolutely certain, but it looked to me as if they only had two windows open at 12.15 last Friday. -- Roland Perry |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In message , at 06:11:45
on Sun, 29 Nov 2009, remarked: As someone who also faces the unbelievable queues at Kings Cross St Pancras my practice is to deal with my Oyster needs at my first destination tube station The queues seem systemic, and have not been alleviated by either the rebuild of the original ticket hall or the introduction of the western hall [1]. I have my doubts whether the northern hall is going to be the silver bullet some predict. [1] http://www.perry.co.uk/images/stp-western-queue.jpg in December 2007. -- Roland Perry |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
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Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
[Oyster and Railcard Discounts]
SamB wrote: I've done it twice. The first time was at Canary Wharf, and, although I had to fill in a form, worked fine. The second time was at Charing Cross, and took a LOT of explaining what I needed, but once he got it (and I wasn't very confident he did get it) it did work. One of the conditions of having a Railcard (or Safeguarded TOC Staff) discount set on an Oyster card is that you register the card first. Not sure how it works on the LU Ticket Office Machines, but it's probably much the same as Cubic FasTIS+. Briefly: Touch card to reader, edit card details, enter Railcard or Photocard Number (as appropriate) into relevant field, select appropriate discount type in first available slot, enter expiry date from Railcard, save the updated data to the card. Cheers, Barry |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
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Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Uncle-C wrote of problems and heated arguments with LU staff wrt discounted daily caps for Railcard holders - several were 100% adamant that these did not exist, they even showed my the relevant LU leaflets which did not mention them. I told of that the information on caps which listed on their website. There has definitely been a lack of information flow and problems in edifiying staff of all the nuances of Oyster. As noted elsethread 22-page document http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf which says at the foot of page 11: "holders of some National Railcards can get discount off-peak daily price capping" Which is just the PDF of the printed 2009 _Your Guide to fares and tickets within Zones 1-6_ available at all tube stations. The same document for 2008 had the actual caps but the split for zone 9 and Watford lost a lot of detail. -- Mike D |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In article , (Clive
Page) wrote: In message , writes As someone who also faces the unbelievable queues at Kings Cross St Pancras my practice is to deal with my Oyster needs at my first destination tube station (usually Westminster or St James's Park but sometimes East Putney). Seems to work for PAYG top up getting change for cash avoiding queues but I've not yet tried to load my Senior Railcard. Must try doing so on Monday. I hope you will let us know how you get on. The reason I've been keen to do this is the discovery that the difference in cost between a ticket to the terminus (KX-St.Pancras in my case) and a 1-day travelcard is of the order of £4-30 (both with Railcard discounts), so that for most trips to London when I don't venture beyond zones 1 and 2 it would be somewhat cheaper to get my rail ticket to the terminus and then use Oyster for the rest. Your mileage may vary, as they say, but it's worth checking. (In fact for the special case of starting from a station on the Thameslink route there appears to be no ticket to London Terminals any more, and my comparison is based on the London Thameslink day return, which of course is valid as far as London Bridge or Elephant & Castle). Yes, I've been annoyed by that for some time. The Travelcard difference is £4.30 (with railcard discount) from Cambridge too. It was just 60p when I started working in London part-time in 2001, an increase outrageously above inflation, even of rail fares! It has meant difficult predictions whether Travelcard or Oyster will be cheaper, depending on the actual tube and bus trips taken. I've bought Travelcards and found I would have spent less using Oyster and vice-versa. It's so annoying. Now I have a Senior Railcard the range in which Travelcard is better value should be much reduced and much clearer before setting out. But that Oyster card has to be loaded with the railcard first. One complication is that mine is not registered because I have preferred not to. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 29 Nov, 23:15, wrote:
And I see that the London Terminals Day Return from Oxford is the same as from Cambridge (£13.20, or £20 without railcard discount) but the Day Travelcard is £15.20 instead of £17.50 from Cambridge. Humph! The TOCs are both part of First Group too! Isn't the Cambridge - London Terminals fare set by FCC? NXEA have their own 'NXEA-only' fare which indicates that they don't set the Any Permitted' fare. |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
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Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 30 Nov, 17:01, wrote:
In article , (Chris) wrote: On 29 Nov, 23:15, wrote: And I see that the London Terminals Day Return from Oxford is the same as from Cambridge (£13.20, or £20 without railcard discount) but the Day Travelcard is £15.20 instead of £17.50 from Cambridge. Humph! The TOCs are both part of First Group too! Isn't the Cambridge - London Terminals fare set by FCC? NXEA have their own 'NXEA-only' fare which indicates that they don't set the Any Permitted' fare. Precisely. Hence my puzzled comparison of FCC and FGW policies. -- Colin Rosenstiel Whatever works in their parish, is probably the policy. |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
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Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
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Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On Nov 29, 11:01*am, Clive Page wrote:
Fortunately, because of an earlier thread in this newsgroup, I was able to readhttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/singlefares/6769.aspx but that URL does not seem to be linked from anywhere else on the TfL site (and I've rooted around for some time). *I wonder how anyone who does not read this newsgroup is expected to find this document. The breadcrumb trail on the left hand side of the page hints at how you can find it - but, for reference: from www.tfl.gov.uk, click Tickets at the top of the page; under Fares and Tickets click Single fares; then on the left hand side, National Rail; and finally Discounted daily price capping - Railcards. Clear as mud, I'm sure you'll agree. I also thought that I saw somewhere that the reduced price cap does not apply to travel on buses when using a NR railcard - not all that unreasonable I guess. *But I can't find this reference any more, and I haven't the faintest idea how it would apply if you were to use some combination of buses and trains during the day. I can attest to the fact that the discounted capping works on buses in exactly the same way as regular Oyster capping. Last year, the cost of Z2 one day off-peak price capping with the NR railcard discount was less than the cost of a one day bus and tram cap, and provided you travelled after 0930, the lower fare applied. (This situation probably will occur again next year, though the 2010 railcard discounted price caps haven't yet been published.) I also had similar trouble getting the discount loaded onto my Oyster card, as I posted here back in February. Various stations shrugged, told me it wasn't possible, or tried to make me fill in a registration form again; Shepherds Bush Central Line eventually pressed the right combination of buttons with the minimum of fuss. |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In message
, martin writes The breadcrumb trail on the left hand side of the page hints at how you can find it - but, for reference: from www.tfl.gov.uk, click Tickets at the top of the page; under Fares and Tickets click Single fares; then on the left hand side, National Rail; and finally Discounted daily price capping - Railcards. Clear as mud, I'm sure you'll agree. Thanks. I don't know how I didn't manage to explore that particular arm of the maze. I can attest to the fact that the discounted capping works on buses in exactly the same way as regular Oyster capping. Hmm, that's odd as it isn't supposed to. At least from my reading of http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx which says:quote National Railcard price capping discounts do not apply if you only travel by bus or tram. However, if you travel by bus or tram as well as Tube, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services, any bus or tram journeys will count towards the daily price cap. /quote Which means, I guess that there are situations in which by taking a short tube/rail journey you might reduce your total fare for the day. Or have I misunderstood it? -- Clive Page |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
As someone who lives well outside the Oyster area, my personal experiences
of this are as follows: 1. It was only thanks to this group that I was aware of the (senior) railcard discount at all. 2. The discount was loaded first time at Paddington (Bakerloo) and second time at Liverpool Street without problem. 3. Although I was asked to show my railcard, no mention was made on either occasion that this discount was not forever, so this is something that staff need to mention to customers 4. Again thanks to a recent post to this group I now know the discount has to be reloaded whenever the railcard expires. Finally I am still not certain of the validity of Oyster Off-Peak (with or without the railcard discount) particularly whether this is all day after 9.30 or whether there is an evening restriction. Regards JKB "Can't you see I'm busy. I'm doing an application" |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
"John" wrote in message ... Finally I am still not certain of the validity of Oyster Off-Peak (with or without the railcard discount) particularly whether this is all day after 9.30 or whether there is an evening restriction. This is not immediately obvious, and has been a regular discussion point here. With Oyster PAYG you have to look at 'individual journeys' and 'daily price capping' as two seperate things. There are peak single fares and offpeak single fares. These vary with the time of day as follows: Peak (used to be called higher rate) 0630 - 0930 and 1600 - 1900 Offpeak (used to be called lower rate) all other times There is then Peak and Offpeak daily capping, this follows the same pattern as a daily travelcard, ie pre 0930 is peak, and after 0930 is offpeak. Same as National Rail peak/offpeak as you'd expect as well... If your first touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. If your first touch in takes place after 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the Offpeak value. Effectively, as long as you don't touch in until after 0930, the afternoon peak fares simply make you reach the offpeak daily cap quicker. Hope this of help... Paul S |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 2 Dec, 17:23, "Paul Scott" wrote:
If your first *touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. If your first touch in takes place after 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the Offpeak value. Effectively, as long as you don't touch in until after 0930, the afternoon peak fares simply make you reach the offpeak daily cap quicker. Er... it has nothing do do with when you first touch. The basic rule is that each journey you pay for contributes to all of the possible caps that might apply, and if any of those caps is reached you only pay the difference (or zero). Journeys made before 9.30 contribute only to the peak cap, while journeys made after contribute to both the off-peak and peak caps. So your sum-total of journeys made all-day will never exceed the peak cap, while the sum-total of journeys made after 9:30 never exceeds the off-peak cap. In practice, the way it works is: If you spend more than the difference between the two caps before 9:30, you'll end up capped at the peak cap. If you spend less (or nothing), your journeys after 9:30 are collectively capped at the off-peak cap. This is all also done separately for each combination of zones (plus bus/tram-only), with the lowest possible fare applying. I think we've just learnt why TfL gloss over this detail in their literature. U |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Mr Thant wrote:
On 2 Dec, 17:23, "Paul Scott" wrote: If your first touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. If your first touch in takes place after 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the Offpeak value. Effectively, as long as you don't touch in until after 0930, the afternoon peak fares simply make you reach the offpeak daily cap quicker. Er... it has nothing do do with when you first touch. The basic rule is that each journey you pay for contributes to all of the possible caps that might apply, and if any of those caps is reached you only pay the difference (or zero). Surely the point is that if 'first touch in that day' is later than 0930 the peak daily cap becomes irrelevant? That is what I was trying to get across. And the time of touching in is very relevant, because that determines the charge, not the actual journey start time... Paul S |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 2 Dec, 19:36, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Mr Thant wrote: On 2 Dec, 17:23, "Paul Scott" wrote: If your first touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. If your first touch in takes place after 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the Offpeak value. Effectively, as long as you don't touch in until after 0930, the afternoon peak fares simply make you reach the offpeak daily cap quicker. Er... it has nothing do do with when you first touch. The basic rule is that each journey you pay for contributes to all of the possible caps that might apply, and if any of those caps is reached you only pay the difference (or zero). Surely the point is that if 'first touch in that day' is later than 0930 the peak daily cap becomes irrelevant? That is what I was trying to get across. And the time of touching in is very relevant, because that determines the charge, not the actual journey start time... It would also be irrelevant if the total charge before 0930 was less than the difference between the peak and off-peak caps. Touching before 0930 doesn't mean that you will be subsequently charged up to the peak cap, only to the off-peak cap plus your first fare. |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 2 Dec, 19:36, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Surely the point is that if 'first touch in that day' is later than 0930 the peak daily cap becomes irrelevant? That is what I was trying to get across. And the time of touching in is very relevant, because that determines the charge, not the actual journey start time... It's this part I disagree with: "If your first touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. " If (hypothetically) the peak cap were £6 and the off-peak cap were £3, if you were to make one £1 journey before 9.30am, trips after 9.30 would still be capped at £3, for a total cost for the day of £4. U |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:23:35 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote: On 2 Dec, 19:36, "Paul Scott" wrote: Surely the point is that if 'first touch in that day' is later than 0930 the peak daily cap becomes irrelevant? That is what I was trying to get across. And the time of touching in is very relevant, because that determines the charge, not the actual journey start time... It's this part I disagree with: "If your first touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. " If (hypothetically) the peak cap were £6 and the off-peak cap were £3, if you were to make one £1 journey before 9.30am, trips after 9.30 would still be capped at £3, for a total cost for the day of £4. If from 2nd January suppose I board a 405 bus in Redhill just after 9am and use my PAYG Oyster to travel to Croydon, and onwards to Victoria by tram and District Line. This means that the off-peak cap would be applied? However if I alighted at Coulsdon South to go to Victoria by train and touched in at Coulsdon South before 9.30 would the different peak time on rail override the bus cap time? -- Stuart Johnson in Peterhead, Scotland To reply direct remove FILTER from |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Mr Thant wrote:
On 2 Dec, 19:36, "Paul Scott" wrote: Surely the point is that if 'first touch in that day' is later than 0930 the peak daily cap becomes irrelevant? That is what I was trying to get across. And the time of touching in is very relevant, because that determines the charge, not the actual journey start time... It's this part I disagree with: "If your first touch in takes place before 0930, all your peak and offpeak daily fares will be added up and capped at the daily Peak value. " If (hypothetically) the peak cap were £6 and the off-peak cap were £3, if you were to make one £1 journey before 9.30am, trips after 9.30 would still be capped at £3, for a total cost for the day of £4. Yes I follow that now thanks, it would have been better to say 'up to a possible maximum of the Peak cap'? Makes more sense with the figures. Just hope I haven't lost the OP... Paul S |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 2 Dec, 21:18, Stuart Johnson
wrote: If from 2nd January suppose I board a 405 bus in Redhill just after 9am and use my PAYG Oyster to travel to Croydon, and onwards to Victoria by tram and District Line. *This means that the off-peak cap would be applied? The bus and tram journeys would contribute towards the bus cap, and to the peak (actually better described as "all day") caps for all zone combinations, and possibly the off-peak caps if you touch in after 9.30. The tube journey contributes towards the off-peak and all-day caps for the relevant zone combinations. However if I alighted at Coulsdon South to go to Victoria by train and touched in at Coulsdon South before 9.30 would the different peak time on rail override the bus cap time? The bus journey contributes towards the bus cap, and to the all day caps for all zone combinations. The train journey contributes towards the all day caps relevant to its zones. Every time the system charges a fare, it increments all of the relevant caps upwards. If this would result in any of those caps exceeding its maximum, the fare is constrained downwards such that it doesn't. So there isn't a simple answer to "which cap applies" for the rest of the day, since all of them potentially constrain the fare, depending on exactly which journeys you make. U |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Yes I follow that now thanks, it would have been better to say 'up to a possible maximum of the Peak cap'? Makes more sense with the figures. Just hope I haven't lost the OP... Paul S Thanks for all the comments since my original post. Well some of it's a bit clearer and no wonder TFL don't give too many details. Just to refer to this simple example, at least I can now understand the situation where my wife's (non railcard) single Zone 1 journey after 9.30 and another after 16.00 always seem to have been charged more than the 2x £1.60 I believed was correct. Could you please confirm the correct deduction. Regards JKB |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
"John" wrote in message ... Yes I follow that now thanks, it would have been better to say 'up to a possible maximum of the Peak cap'? Makes more sense with the figures. Just hope I haven't lost the OP... Paul S Thanks for all the comments since my original post. Well some of it's a bit clearer and no wonder TFL don't give too many details. Just to refer to this simple example, at least I can now understand the situation where my wife's (non railcard) single Zone 1 journey after 9.30 and another after 16.00 always seem to have been charged more than the 2x £1.60 I believed was correct. Could you please confirm the correct deduction. If they are straightforward zone 1 journeys the peak and offpeak Oyster fares are the same, at £1.60. What did you see to make you think you were not being charged 2 x £1.60? If you can remember we might be able to explain... Paul S |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
In message , John
writes Just to refer to this simple example, at least I can now understand the situation where my wife's (non railcard) single Zone 1 journey after 9.30 and another after 16.00 always seem to have been charged more than the 2x £1.60 I believed was correct. As Paul has said, £1.60 each way is correct for Zone 1, whatever the time of day. Is it possible that she is changing from NR to LU outside of Zone 1 (e.g. at Stratford instead of Liverpool Street), without realising that this is costing more? -- Paul Terry |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
John wrote
1. It was only thanks to this group that I was aware of the (senior) railcard discount at all. 2. The discount was loaded first time at Paddington (Bakerloo) and second time at Liverpool Street without problem. 3. Although I was asked to show my railcard, no mention was made on either occasion that this discount was not forever, so this is something that staff need to mention to customers 4. Again thanks to a recent post to this group I now know the discount has to be reloaded whenever the railcard expires. [...] I just picked up the latest Senior Railcard leaflet "valid up to and including 23 May 2010" and it mentions the Oyster loading and gives the Tfl URL http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...009/farefinder One additional item unknown to me was "you can now get a discount on a London Zones 1-6 *Anytime* Travelcard when bought as part of your ticket to London (subject to a minimum fare). The (subject to a minimum fare) also appears with the "discount on a London Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Travelcard" item where it is nonsensical so perhaps a carry over from the Network South-East card leaflet. They also emailed me a reminder to renew and http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...d_extension.ht ml adds "load at a Tube station" and http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...fares_not_in_j p.html actually mentions boundary zone tickets. -- Mike D |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
As Paul has said, £1.60 each way is correct for Zone 1, whatever the time of day. Is it possible that she is changing from NR to LU outside of Zone 1 (e.g. at Stratford instead of Liverpool Street), without realising that this is costing more? -- Paul Terry Thanks again for the info. I'm afraid I can't provide any evidence, only that her balance seemed to be less than expected the next time we used the Oystercard. At least this issue is being addressed in the latest leaflets. John |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On Dec 1, 11:00*pm, Clive Page wrote:
In message , martin writes I can attest to the fact that the discounted capping works on buses in exactly the same way as regular Oyster capping. Hmm, that's odd as it isn't supposed to. *At least from my reading ofhttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx which says:quote National Railcard price capping discounts do not apply if you only travel by bus or tram. However, if you travel by bus or tram as well as Tube, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services, any bus or tram journeys will count towards the daily price cap. /quote Which means, I guess that there are situations in which by taking a short tube/rail journey you might reduce your total fare for the day. Or have I misunderstood it? After racking my brains, I recalled this coming up last year. It was, indeed, possible for the Railcard cap to apply after only four bus journeys, though the poster doesn't say whether they were all after 0930: http://tinyurl.com/yzc5kuc (link to archived Google Groups u.t.l post) As I mentioned upthread, the price of a one day bus and tram pass is currently equal to the Railcard z2-6 off-peak cap, so it's all academic this year. However, next year, the bus cap will be £3.90, and the Railcard z2-6 cap will be £3.35, so it's possible this will apply again after January 2nd. |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
On 4 Dec, 16:37, martin wrote:
As I mentioned upthread, the price of a one day bus and tram pass is currently equal to the Railcard z2-6 off-peak cap, so it's all academic this year. However, next year, the bus cap will be £3.90, and the Railcard z2-6 cap will be £3.35, so it's possible this will apply again after January 2nd. Good work ! How did you manage to find out that the new z2-6 cap, as from 02.01.10, will be £3.35 ? That's a mere £0.05 increase - very noble of TfL ! |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Uncle-C wrote:
On 4 Dec, 16:37, martin wrote: As I mentioned upthread, the price of a one day bus and tram pass is currently equal to the Railcard z2-6 off-peak cap, so it's all academic this year. However, next year, the bus cap will be £3.90, and the Railcard z2-6 cap will be £3.35, so it's possible this will apply again after January 2nd. Good work ! How did you manage to find out that the new z2-6 cap, as from 02.01.10, will be £3.35 ? That's a mere £0.05 increase - very noble of TfL ! It could be £3.30 - depends how they round it really. What they have announced is that all daily Oyster caps will rise by 50p and come into line with the equivalent travelcard prices. Paul S |
Cannot get Railcard discount loaded on to Oyster
Michael R N Dolbear wrote
I just picked up the latest Senior Railcard leaflet "valid up to and including 23 May 2010" One additional item unknown to me was "you can now get a discount on a London Zones 1-6 *Anytime* Travelcard when bought as part of your ticket to London (subject to a minimum fare). I now see that this was discussed here on UTL Sept 2009 - "Senior railcard discount - or not? - on Anytime travelcard" I must have mentally misfiled it. My question however is whether it is improper for a /SWT/ machine to sell it since at least until 2 Jan 2010 SWT doesn't have any evening peak restrictions so what you ought to be sold is a off-peak railcard (except that "tickets for tomorrow" doesn't do off-peak except implicitly by use of a railcard Railcard). Same if you bought an Anytime day return with Senior Railcard. -- Mike D |
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