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TfL fare information for 2010
As well as the travel information for the festive period[1], TfL have
snuck onto their website a bit more information about the fares from 2nd January. Of likely interest: Single fare finder: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...refinder/next/ NR Railcard one day caps: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/6769.aspx NR Railcard discounted one day Travelcards: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ets/11696.aspx The main page for the 2010 fares is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx As yet, there doesn't appear to be a PDF of the leaflet. - martin [1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/13658.aspx |
TfL fare information for 2010
Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced
in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap on Oyster PAYG used to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3.35 for z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good value in anyone's book ! |
TfL fare information for 2010
On Dec 5, 11:23*am, Uncle-C wrote:
Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap on Oyster PAYG used to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3.35 for z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good value in anyone's book ! Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to avoid zone 1? How are you meant to manage to do that? Here's another anomaly (albeit not on the main fare shown) and good value. East Croydon to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.20 off peak! Clapham Junction to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.30 off peak East Croydon to Clapham Junction is £2.00 off peak. |
TfL fare information for 2010
Single fare finder:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...refinder/next/ Many thanks for the links. May I ask a numpty question about line closures and travel through Zone 1? With the closure of the North London Line (NLL) in prospect I checked the farefinder for (to take one example) Homerton to Kew Gardens. It gave me an Oyster fare of £1.30 at any time. Fair (sic) enough. But when I clicked through to "Plan this journey" for 2 January it naturally routed me through Zone 1. And the same was true for the period from 20 February when (IIRC) the NLL blockade starts. Is the lower fare correct? Even if I am gripped (if that is the right term) within Zone 1? If not, should the farefinder have a health warning on the lines of "The fares above assume you don't travel through Zone 1 unless you need to do so. You [may][will] be charged more if you do in fact travel through Zone 1 - even if you do so as a result of engineering works or other events outside your control." -- R |
TfL fare information for 2010
On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote:
On Dec 5, 11:23*am, Uncle-C wrote: Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap on Oyster PAYG used to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3.35 for z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good value in anyone's book ! Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that? Here's another anomaly (albeit not on the main fare shown) and good value. East Croydon to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.20 off peak! Clapham Junction to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.30 off peak East Croydon to Clapham Junction is £2.00 off peak. It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via Clapham Junction. However, if your OSI is on the Thameslink route, you avoid the premium for zone 1 tube + train fares. Otherwise, using a Zone 1 NR-Tube OSI charges you the premium. The section on OEPs seems to suggest that they only last for the first journey after loading, even if you touch out within your travelcard zones. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oyster...aspx#section-5 |
TfL fare information for 2010
Uncle-C wrote
Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap on Oyster PAYG used to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3.35 for z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good value in anyone's book ! And so is £5.00 for z1-6 But getting out at Vauxhall and then being able to take buses all day for £3.35 will indeed be good value for, eg, Scots and Welsh Senior Railcard holders. -- Mike D |
TfL fare information for 2010
On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:05:59 GMT, neverwas wrote:
Single fare finder: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...refinder/next/ Many thanks for the links. May I ask a numpty question about line closures and travel through Zone 1? With the closure of the North London Line (NLL) in prospect I checked the farefinder for (to take one example) Homerton to Kew Gardens. It gave me an Oyster fare of £1.30 at any time. Fair (sic) enough. But when I clicked through to "Plan this journey" for 2 January it naturally routed me through Zone 1. And the same was true for the period from 20 February when (IIRC) the NLL blockade starts. Is the lower fare correct? Even if I am gripped (if that is the right term) within Zone 1? If not, should the farefinder have a health warning on the lines of "The fares above assume you don't travel through Zone 1 unless you need to do so. You [may][will] be charged more if you do in fact travel through Zone 1 - even if you do so as a result of engineering works or other events outside your control." Currently, if you touch in at Homerton and out at Kew Gardens without any touches in between, it (presumably) charges you the Z2-3 fare. This must apply even if you change to the Vic at Hi&I and go via Z1 (as the system has no way of knowing that you took that route because there are no OSIs along the way). It'd be a bit harsh if they changed this during the closure. Whether you get gripped along the way is irrelevant. |
TfL fare information for 2010
Currently, if you touch in at Homerton and out at Kew Gardens without any touches in between, it (presumably) charges you the Z2-3 fare. This must apply even if you change to the Vic at Hi&I and go via Z1 (as the system has no way of knowing that you took that route because there are no OSIs along the way). It'd be a bit harsh if they changed this during the closure. Yes thanks - but I can equally well see that they may just work on the basis that it's my choice whether to take the tube or several buses :( Whether you get gripped along the way is irrelevant. I can see that the grippers wouldn't necessarily know I was not getting off *in* Zone 1 and touching out there. On the other hand they could if were gripped while transiting from zone 1 to zone 2. And I am reminded that the Oyster Travelcards certainly don't get such a break. TfL have made explicit that there is no concessionary travel via Zone 1 for them during NLL closures. See eg http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/livetra...osures-FAQ.pdf Confused? Moi? -- R |
TfL fare information for 2010
On 6 Dec, 10:35, "neverwas" wrote:
I can see that the grippers wouldn't necessarily know I was not getting off *in* Zone 1 and touching out there. *On the other hand they could if were gripped while transiting from zone 1 to zone 2. One of the tenets of PAYG is that you can take any route you like as long as you touch in and out at either end, and TfL takes responsibility for choosing the correct fare. If the system guesses wrongly about which route you took, it's their problem, not yours. Even using a pink validator doesn't bar you from zone 1 - the route is defined as "A to B via pink validator C", not "A to B avoiding zone 1". The only time a gripper might ask questions is if you're caught on a train travelling towards the location you supposedly touched in at. U |
TfL fare information for 2010
In message , neverwas
writes I can see that the grippers wouldn't necessarily know I was not getting off *in* Zone 1 and touching out there. Isn't it much the same as if you cross London with a NR ticket from one side of London to another with a + on it: you can cross zone 1 on the tube but cannot validly get out except at designated NR terminus stations? On the other hand they could if were gripped while transiting from zone 1 to zone 2. Even so, you would be travelling on a valid Oyster ticket, having touched in at the start; they wouldn't know where you are planning to touch out, would they? Is there any requirement to re-touch en-route to show the Oyster system that you are using a particular route (except if it is to your advantage to show that you are using a cheaper route such as one which avoids zone 1)? I don't think so. It seems to me that such a journey is valid at all points, and if the system charges you a cheaper fare on the assumption that you have used a particular route, that is not your problem. -- Clive Page |
TfL fare information for 2010
On 5 Dec, 18:51, Matthew Dickinson
wrote: On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote: On Dec 5, 11:23*am, Uncle-C wrote: Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap on Oyster PAYG used to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3.35 for z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good value in anyone's book ! Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that? Here's another anomaly (albeit not on the main fare shown) and good value. East Croydon to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.20 off peak! Clapham Junction to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.30 off peak East Croydon to Clapham Junction is £2.00 off peak. It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via Clapham Junction. However, if your OSI is on the Thameslink route, you avoid the premium for zone 1 tube + train fares. Otherwise, using a Zone 1 NR-Tube OSI charges you the premium. The section on OEPs seems to suggest that they only last for the first journey after loading, even if you touch out within your travelcard zones. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oyster...spx#section-5- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Presumably, Herne Hill - Brixton - Vauxhall - Clapham Junction - Watford Junction (which is a bit of an awkward way to avoid zone 1), and, if so, why doesn't it specify that this is the routing? |
TfL fare information for 2010
"Mr Thant" wrote in message ... On 6 Dec, 10:35, "neverwas" wrote: I can see that the grippers wouldn't necessarily know I was not getting off *in* Zone 1 and touching out there. On the other hand they could if were gripped while transiting from zone 1 to zone 2. One of the tenets of PAYG is that you can take any route you like as long as you touch in and out at either end, and TfL takes responsibility for choosing the correct fare. If the system guesses wrongly about which route you took, it's their problem, not yours. Even using a pink validator doesn't bar you from zone 1 - the route is defined as "A to B via pink validator C", not "A to B avoiding zone 1". I think if someone was spotted getting off the Central line at Stratford, going to the NLL platforms to touch the validator, before returning to the Central line that would be considered deliberate fare evasion. Peter Smyth |
TfL fare information for 2010
Jonathan Harris wrote: On 5 Dec, 18:51, Matthew Dickinson wrote: On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote: Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that? It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via Clapham Junction. Presumably, Herne Hill - Brixton - Vauxhall - Clapham Junction - Watford Junction (which is a bit of an awkward way to avoid zone 1), and, if so, why doesn't it specify that this is the routing? More likely, Herne Hill -- either Mitcham Eastfields or Wimbledon -- Clapham Junction -- Watford Junction. |
TfL fare information for 2010
I'm grateful and (I think) persuaded. It still feels wrong compared
with the treatment of travelcards but I suppose they get their reward in lower prices (leaving aside 3 month blockades). -- R |
TfL fare information for 2010
On 6 Dec, 13:02, Jonathan Harris wrote:
On 5 Dec, 18:51, Matthew Dickinson wrote: On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote: On Dec 5, 11:23*am, Uncle-C wrote: Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap onOysterPAYG used to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3..35 for z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good value in anyone's book ! Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that? Here's another anomaly (albeit not on the main fare shown) and good value. East Croydon to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.20 off peak! Clapham Junction to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.30 off peak East Croydon to Clapham Junction is £2.00 off peak. It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via Clapham Junction. However, if your OSI is on the Thameslink route, you avoid the premium for zone 1 tube + train fares. Otherwise, using a Zone 1 NR-Tube OSI charges you the premium. The section on OEPs seems to suggest that they only last for the first journey after loading, even if you touch out within your travelcard zones. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oyster...section-5-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Presumably, Herne Hill - Brixton - Vauxhall - Clapham Junction - Watford Junction (which is a bit of an awkward way to avoid zone 1), and, if so, why doesn't it specify that this is the routing? A fair question. Until the Single Fare Finder and Journey Planner are integrated, it will be difficult for people to know what they are going to pay for any particular route. |
TfL fare information for 2010
On 6 Dec, 21:47, "neverwas" wrote:
I'm grateful and (I think) persuaded. *It still feels wrong compared with the treatment of travelcards but I suppose they get their reward in lower prices (leaving aside 3 month blockades). -- R It seems as if PAYG and travelcards might both have a disadvantage over point-to-point tickets when it comes to diversionary routes. It never seems fair to pay the same for a longer, diverted journey, let alone more, but that's a general problem. |
TfL fare information for 2010
MIG wrote:
On 6 Dec, 21:47, "neverwas" wrote: I'm grateful and (I think) persuaded. It still feels wrong compared with the treatment of travelcards but I suppose they get their reward in lower prices (leaving aside 3 month blockades). -- R It seems as if PAYG and travelcards might both have a disadvantage over point-to-point tickets when it comes to diversionary routes. It never seems fair to pay the same for a longer, diverted journey, let alone more, but that's a general problem. Yes - the more so as I realise belatedly that the practicable routes available to me in the absence of the NLL all seem to involve both travel through Zone 1 and the assumption of travel through Zone 1. So I think I revert to my original thought that the fare finder ought perhaps to include a health warning about diversions. (I accept this is just a subset of the more general point made by JD about integration of the Fare Finder and Journey Planner.) -- R |
TfL fare information for 2010
On Dec 4, 4:28*pm, martin wrote:
The main page for the 2010 fares is athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx As yet, there doesn't appear to be a PDF of the leaflet. I've noticed posters appearing around the network for the new fares, directing people to the fares website - no mention of 'pick up a leaflet', and no sign of them in ticket offices yet either. I wonder TfL have deemed it too expensive to produce one this year? |
TfL fare information for 2010
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... I thought there would also be the "World of Oyster" map made available in print form but no sign of that either. Again it can't really be tenable for that map not to be available in printed form - if National Rail can publish a leaflet and a map I fail to see why TfL cannot do the same. The London Connections map, Dec 09 version, seems to achieve the same aim as the 'World of Oyster' map by the simple expedient of adding a dotted line round the zones, including zone 'W' and 'G'. Obviously slightly different in that the rail routes predominate, and they are colour coded by TOC, rather than by terminus, but there seems to be little point in having two subtly different versions of the same info? Paul S |
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