London Banter - Single fare from 2nd Jan

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Single fare from 2nd Jan

According to the TfL website, it'll cost me £3.20 to get from Surbiton
[National Rail] to Brixton [London Underground] ...

However, won't I be exiting at Vauxhall National Rail before having to
get back on again at Vauxhall Underground?

I checked by putting in Stockwell, however this made no difference.
(Thinking it may want to route me via CJ and Victoria to Brixton).

Thanks

Single fare from 2nd Jan

In message
,
elyob writes

According to the TfL website, it'll cost me £3.20 to get from Surbiton
[National Rail] to Brixton [London Underground] ...

However, won't I be exiting at Vauxhall National Rail before having to
get back on again at Vauxhall Underground?

Yes - why's that a problem? (Vauxhall, like Brixton, is zone 2, so it's
basically a zone 6 to zone 2 ticket).

--
Paul Terry

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On Dec 8, 4:08*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
elyob writes

According to the TfL website, it'll cost me £3.20 to get from Surbiton
[National Rail] to Brixton [London Underground] ...

However, won't I be exiting at Vauxhall National Rail before having to
get back on again at Vauxhall Underground?

Yes - why's that a problem? (Vauxhall, like Brixton, is zone 2, so it's
basically a zone 6 to zone 2 ticket).

I thought that touching out of national rail could make the tube
journey a new journey?

Single fare from 2nd Jan

elyob wrote:
On Dec 8, 4:08 pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
elyob writes

According to the TfL website, it'll cost me £3.20 to get from
Surbiton [National Rail] to Brixton [London Underground] ...

However, won't I be exiting at Vauxhall National Rail before having
to get back on again at Vauxhall Underground?

Yes - why's that a problem? (Vauxhall, like Brixton, is zone 2, so
it's basically a zone 6 to zone 2 ticket).

I thought that touching out of national rail could make the tube
journey a new journey?

No, the journey will be considered a single journey. Under the new
arrangements though, it can have 3 different prices, ie Tube [1] only, Rail
only, or in this case Tube + Rail. In your example Vauxhall [NR] and [LU]
will work as an out of station interchange, (OSI)

[1] where 'Tube' means LU/LO/DLR (and those NR routes that already accept
PAYG apparently).

Paul S

Single fare from 2nd Jan

Paul Corfield wrote:

I haven't attempted to work out the numbers but there will be a
considerable increase in OSIs and their complexity come 2/1/10. As an
example just think about Waterloo NR, Waterloo W&C, Waterloo LUL,
Waterloo East and Southwark. Potentially all one complex! - whether it
ends up as one I can't say.

Conveniently, a list of OSIs from 2nd January has now appeared on "The
Manual"[1] and there are just under 200 pairs given.

Note that each gateline at a given station appears to be listed
separately, with interchange times varying from 15 minutes (e.g. Bow
Church to Bow Road) to 40 minutes (e.g. Monument to Fenchurch Street).

Cheers,

Barry

[1] An internal railway site

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:04:37 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

Note that each gateline at a given station appears to be listed
separately, with interchange times varying from 15 minutes (e.g. Bow
Church to Bow Road) to 40 minutes (e.g. Monument to Fenchurch Street).

The latter seems short, given that you'd wait for the train on the
concourse at Fenchurch St, so if it was a Sunday and you wanted the
all stations stopper you might be waiting 29 minutes.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:27:00 -0800 (PST), elyob
wrote:

On Dec 8, 4:08 pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
elyob writes

According to the TfL website, it'll cost me £3.20 to get from
Surbiton [National Rail] to Brixton [London Underground] ...

However, won't I be exiting at Vauxhall National Rail before
having to get back on again at Vauxhall Underground?

Yes - why's that a problem? (Vauxhall, like Brixton, is zone 2, so
it's basically a zone 6 to zone 2 ticket).

I thought that touching out of national rail could make the tube
journey a new journey?

As Mr Scott has said not after 2/1/10. PAYG will be valid both "sides"
of the interchange and as it is entirely valid to make an interchange
at Vauxhall the NR and LU Vauxhall Stations will become a paired OSI.
This happened at Balham recently when Southern began accepting PAYG
on the NR tariff between Victoria and Balham.

I haven't attempted to work out the numbers but there will be a
considerable increase in OSIs and their complexity come 2/1/10. As an
example just think about Waterloo NR, Waterloo W&C, Waterloo LUL,
Waterloo East and Southwark. Potentially all one complex! - whether it
ends up as one I can't say.

I was agreeably surprised to discover yesterday that the Kings Cross St
Pancras LU station remain an OSI, even though it's no longer necessary.
I went to have a look at the new northern ticket office, exiting from
one of the old LU gatelines and re-entering a few minutes later via the
new northern gateline. My Oyster fare to the station was zeroed out as
it's treated as an OSI, even though I could have changed LU lines
without passing any gatelines.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 9 Dec, 02:04, Barry Salter wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
I haven't attempted to work out the numbers but there will be a
considerable increase in OSIs and their complexity come 2/1/10. As an
example just think about Waterloo NR, Waterloo W&C, Waterloo LUL,
Waterloo East and Southwark. Potentially all one complex! - whether it
ends up as one I can't say.

Conveniently, a list of OSIs from 2nd January has now appeared on "The
Manual"[1] and there are just under 200 pairs given.

Well, don't keep us in suspense, Barry - you can answer Paul's
query....

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 9 Dec, 12:38, "Recliner" wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:27:00 -0800 (PST), elyob
wrote:

On Dec 8, 4:08 pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
elyob writes

According to the TfL website, it'll cost me £3.20 to get from
Surbiton [National Rail] to Brixton [London Underground] ...

However, won't I be exiting at Vauxhall National Rail before
having to get back on again at Vauxhall Underground?

Yes - why's that a problem? (Vauxhall, like Brixton, is zone 2, so
it's basically a zone 6 to zone 2 ticket).

I thought that touching out of national rail could make the tube
journey a new journey?

As Mr Scott has said not after 2/1/10. PAYG will be valid both "sides"
of the interchange and as it is entirely valid to make an interchange
at Vauxhall the NR and LU Vauxhall Stations will become a paired OSI.
This happened at Balham recently when Southern began accepting PAYG
on the NR tariff between Victoria and Balham.

I haven't attempted to work out the numbers but there will be a
considerable increase in OSIs and their complexity come 2/1/10. As an
example just think about Waterloo NR, Waterloo W&C, Waterloo LUL,
Waterloo East and Southwark. Potentially all one complex! - whether it
ends up as one I can't say.

I was agreeably surprised to discover yesterday that the Kings Cross St
Pancras LU station remain an OSI, even though it's no longer necessary.
I went to have a look at the new northern ticket office, exiting from
one of the old LU gatelines and re-entering a few minutes later via the
new northern gateline. My Oyster fare to the station was zeroed out as
it's treated as an OSI, even though I could have changed LU lines
without passing any gatelines.

This is because of the MIP lifts. Several interchanges using only
lifts require passing through gatelines.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

"Chris" wrote in message
...
On 9 Dec, 02:04, Barry Salter wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
I haven't attempted to work out the numbers but there will be a
considerable increase in OSIs and their complexity come 2/1/10. As
an
example just think about Waterloo NR, Waterloo W&C, Waterloo LUL,
Waterloo East and Southwark. Potentially all one complex! - whether
it
ends up as one I can't say.

Conveniently, a list of OSIs from 2nd January has now appeared on
"The
Manual"[1] and there are just under 200 pairs given.

Well, don't keep us in suspense, Barry - you can answer Paul's
query....

Here they are

Aldgate (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Archway (LU) - Upper Holloway (NR) (20)
Baker Street (LU) - Marylebone (NR) (40)
Balham (LU) - Balham (NR) (20)
Balham (NR) - Balham (LU) (20)
Bank (LU) - Cannon Street (LU) (15)
Bank (LU) - Cannon Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Liverpool Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Mansion House (LU) (15)
Bank Central / Northern / DLR (LU) - Bank Waterloo & City (LU) (15)
Bank Waterloo & City (LU) - Bank Central / Northern / DLR (LU) (15)
Blackfriars (NR) - Mansion House (LU) (20)
Blackfriars (NR) - Temple (LU) (20)
Bounds Green (LU) - Bowes Park (NR) (20)
Bow Road (LU) - Bow Church (DLR) (15)
Bow Church (DLR) - Bow Road (LU) (15)
Bowes Park (NR) - Bounds Green (LU) (20)
Brixton (LU) - Brixton (NR) (20)
Brixton (NR) - Brixton (LU) (20)
Bromley North (NR) - Bromley South (NR) (30)
Bromley South (NR) - Bromley North (NR) (30)
Brondesbury (NR) - Kilburn (LU) (20)
Camden Road (NR) - Camden Town (LU) (20)
Camden Town (LU) - Camden Road (NR) (20)
Canary Wharf E2 (LU) - Canary Wharf (DLR) (20)
Canary Wharf E2 (LU) - Canary Wharf (LU) (10)
Canary Wharf E2 (LU) - Heron Quays (DLR) (15)
Canary Wharf (DLR) - Canary Wharf E2 (LU) (20)
Canary Wharf (DLR) - Canary Wharf (LU) (20)
Canary Wharf (LU) - Canary Wharf E2 (LU) (10)
Canary Wharf (LU) - Canary Wharf (DLR) (20)
Canary Wharf (LU) - Heron Quays (DLR) (15)
Cannon Street (LU) - Bank (LU) (15)
Cannon Street (NR) - Bank (LU) (15)
Cannon Street (NR) - Cannon Street (LU) (20)
Cannon Street (LU) - Cannon Street (NR) (40)
Catford (NR) - Catford Bridge (NR) (20)
Catford Bridge (NR) - Catford (NR) (20)
Charing Cross (LU) - Charing Cross (NR) (40)
Charing Cross (NR) - Charing Cross (LU) (20)
Charing Cross (NR) - Embankment (LU) (20)
Clapham High Street (NR) - Clapham North (LU) (20)
Clapham North (LU) - Clapham High Street (NR) (20)
Clock House (NR) - Kent House (NR) (20)
Edgware Road H&C (LU) - Marylebone (NR) (40)
Elephant & Castle (LU) - Elephant & Castle (NR) (20)
Elephant & Castle (NR) - Elephant & Castle (LU) (20)
Embankment (LU) - Charing Cross (NR) (40)
Embankment (LU) - Waterloo East (NR) (40)
Embankment (LU) - Waterloo (NR) (40)
Euston (LU) - Euston (NR) (40)
Euston (LU) - Euston Square (LU) (20)
Euston (NR) - Euston (LU) (20)
Euston (NR) - Euston Square (LU) (20)
Euston (NR) - King's Cross (NR) (40)
Euston (NR) - St Pancras International (NR) (30)
Euston Square (LU) - Euston (LU) (20)
Euston Square (LU) - Euston (NR) (40)
Fenchurch Street (NR) - Aldgate (LU) (20)
Fenchurch Street (NR) - Bank (LU) (20)
Fenchurch Street (NR) - Liverpool Street (NR) (40)
Fenchurch Street (NR) - Monument (LU) (20)
Fenchurch Street (NR) - Tower Gateway (DLR) (20)
Fenchurch Street (NR) - Tower Hill (LU) (20)
Finchley Road & Frognal (NR) - Finchley Road (LU) (20)
Finchley Road (LU) - Finchley Road & Frognal (NR) (20)
Forest Gate (NR) - Wanstead Park (NR) (20)
Hackney Central (NR) - Hackney Downs (NR) (20)
Hackney Downs (NR) - Hackney Central (NR) (20)
Hammersmith D&P (LU) - Hammersmith H&C (LU) (20)
Hammersmith H&C (LU) - Hammersmith D&P (LU) (20)
Hanger Lane (LU) - Park Royal (LU) (25)
Harringay (NR) - Harringay Green Lanes (NR) (20)
Harringay Green Lanes (NR) - Harringay (NR) (20)
Heron Quays (DLR) - Canary Wharf E2 (LU) (15)
Heron Quays (DLR) - Canary Wharf (LU) (15)
Kent House (NR) - Clock House (NR) (20)
Kentish Town West (NR) - Kentish Town (LU/NR) (20)
Kentish Town (LU/NR) - Kentish Town West (NR) (20)
Kenton (LU / NR) - Northwick Park (LU) (20)
Kilburn (LU) - Brondesbury (NR) (20)
King's Cross (NR) - Euston (NR) (40)
King's Cross (NR) - King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU) (20)
King's Cross (NR) - King's Cross St. Pancras Tube (LU) (20)
King's Cross (NR) - St Pancras International (NR) (20)
King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU) - King's Cross (NR) (40)
King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU) - King's Cross St. Pancras Tube (LU)
(15)
King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU) - St Pancras International (NR) (20)
King's Cross St. Pancras Tube (LU) - King's Cross (NR) (40)
King's Cross St. Pancras Tube (LU) - King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU)
(15)
King's Cross St. Pancras Tube (LU) - St Pancras International (NR) (20)
Lancaster Gate (LU) - Paddington (NR) (40)
Lewisham (DLR) - Lewisham (NR) (20)
Lewisham (NR) - Lewisham (DLR) (20)
Leytonstone (LU) - Leytonstone High Road (NR) (20)
Leytonstone High Road (NR) - Leytonstone (LU) (20)
Limehouse (DLR) - Limehouse (NR) (20)
Limehouse (NR) - Limehouse (DLR) (20)
Liverpool Street 1-10 (NR) - Liverpool Street 11-18 (NR) (30)
Liverpool Street 11-18 (NR) - Liverpool Street 1-10 (NR) (30)
Liverpool Street (LU) - Liverpool Street (NR) (40)
Liverpool Street (NR) - Bank (LU) (20)
Liverpool Street (NR) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Liverpool Street (NR) - Liverpool Street (LU) (20)
London Bridge (SouthEastern) (NR) - London Bridge (Southern) (NR) (30)
London Bridge (Southern) (NR) - London Bridge (SouthEastern) (NR) (30)
London Bridge (LU) - London Bridge (NR) (40)
London Bridge (NR) - London Bridge (LU) (20)
Mansion House (LU) - Bank (LU) (15)
Mansion House (LU) - Blackfriars (NR) (20)
Marylebone (LU) - Marylebone (NR) (40)
Marylebone (NR) - Baker Street (LU) (20)
Marylebone (NR) - Edgware Road H&C (LU) (20)
Marylebone (NR) - Marylebone (LU) (20)
Marylebone (NR) - Paddington (NR) (40)
Monument (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
New Cross (NR) - New Cross Gate (NR) (25)
New Cross Gate (NR) - New Cross (NR) (25)
Northwick Park (LU) - Kenton (LU / NR) (20)
Paddington (inc H&C) (NR) - Paddington (LU) (20)
Paddington (LU) - Paddington (inc H&C) (NR) (40)
Paddington (NR Gates) (NR) - Paddington (NR Validators) (NR) (20)
Paddington (NR Validators) (NR) - Paddington (NR Gates) (NR) (20)
Paddington (NR) - Lancaster Gate (LU) (20)
Paddington (NR) - Marylebone (NR) (40)
Park Royal (LU) - Hanger Lane (LU) (25)
Penge East (NR) - Penge West (NR) (25)
Penge West (NR) - Penge East (NR) (25)
Seven Sisters (LU / NR) - South Tottenham (NR) (20)
Shepherd's Bush (Central) (LU) - Shepherd's Bush (NR) (20)
Shepherd's Bush (NR) - Shepherd's Bush (Central) (LU) (20)
South Tottenham (NR) - Seven Sisters (LU / NR) (20)
Southwark (LU) - Waterloo East (NR) (40)
St Pancras International (NR) - Euston (NR) (40)
St Pancras International (NR) - King's Cross (NR) (40)
St Pancras International (NR) - King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU) (20)
St Pancras International (NR) - King's Cross St. Pancras Tube (LU) (20)
Sudbury Hill (LU) - Sudbury Hill, Harrow (NR) (20)
Sudbury Hill, Harrow (NR) - Sudbury Hill (LU) (20)
Temple (LU) - Blackfriars (NR) (20)
Tottenham Hale (LU) - Tottenham Hale (NR) (20)
Tottenham Hale (NR) - Tottenham Hale (LU) (20)
Tower Gateway (DLR) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Tower Gateway (DLR) - Tower Hill (LU) (15)
Tower Hill (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Tower Hill (LU) - Tower Gateway (DLR) (15)
Upper Holloway (NR) - Archway (LU) (20)
Upper Warlingham (NR) - Whyteleafe (NR) (20)
Vauxhall (LU) - Vauxhall (NR) (20)
Vauxhall (NR) - Vauxhall (LU) (20)
Victoria (SouthEastern) (NR) - Victoria (Southern) (NR) (30)
Victoria (SouthEastern) (NR) - Victoria (LU) (20)
Victoria (Southern) (NR) - Victoria (SouthEastern) (NR) (30)
Victoria (Southern) (NR) - Victoria (LU) (20)
Victoria (LU) - Victoria (SouthEastern) (NR) (40)
Victoria (LU) - Victoria (Southern) (NR) (40)
Walthamstow Central (LU) - Walthamstow Central (NR) (20)
Walthamstow Central (LU) - Walthamstow Queens Road (NR) (25)
Walthamstow Central (NR) - Walthamstow Central (LU) (20)
Walthamstow Central (NR) - Walthamstow Queens Road (NR) (25)
Walthamstow Queens Road (NR) - Walthamstow Central (LU) (25)
Walthamstow Queens Road (NR) - Walthamstow Central (NR) (25)
Wanstead Park (NR) - Forest Gate (NR) (20)
Waterloo East (NR) - Embankment (LU) (30)
Waterloo East (NR) - Southwark (LU) (20)
Waterloo East (NR) - Waterloo Jubilee (LU) (20)
Waterloo East (NR) - Waterloo W&C (LU) (20)
Waterloo East (NR) - Waterloo (LU) (20)
Waterloo East (NR) - Waterloo (NR) (30)
Waterloo Jubilee (LU) - Waterloo East (NR) (40)
Waterloo Jubilee (LU) - Waterloo W&C (LU) (15)
Waterloo Jubilee (LU) - Waterloo (NR) (40)
Waterloo W&C (LU) - Waterloo East (NR) (40)
Waterloo W&C (LU) - Waterloo Jubilee (LU) (15)
Waterloo W&C (LU) - Waterloo (LU) (15)
Waterloo W&C (LU) - Waterloo (NR) (40)
Waterloo (LU) - Waterloo East (NR) (40)
Waterloo (LU) - Waterloo W&C (LU) (15)
Waterloo (LU) - Waterloo (NR) (40)
Waterloo (NR) - Embankment (LU) (25)
Waterloo (NR) - Waterloo East (NR) (30)
Waterloo (NR) - Waterloo Jubilee (LU) (20)
Waterloo (NR) - Waterloo W&C (LU) (20)
Waterloo (NR) - Waterloo (LU) (20)
Wembley Central (LU / LO) - Wembley Central (NR) (20)
Wembley Central (NR) - Wembley Central (LU / LO) (20)
West Hampstead LOROL (NR) - West Hampstead (LU) (20)
West Hampstead (LU) - West Hampstead LOROL (NR) (20)
West Hampstead (LU) - West Hampstead Thameslink (NR) (20)
West Hampstead LOROL (NR) - West Hampstead Thameslink (NR) (20)
West Hampstead Thameslink (NR) - West Hampstead LOROL (NR) (20)
West Hampstead Thameslink (NR) - West Hampstead (LU) (20)
White City (LU) - Wood Lane (LU) (20)
Whyteleafe (NR) - Upper Warlingham (NR) (20)
Wood Lane (LU) - White City (LU) (20)

Peter Smyth

Single fare from 2nd Jan

Peter Smyth wrote:

Forest Gate (NR) - Wanstead Park (NR) (20)

Ah confirmation that this *is* a valid interchange on a through ticket. I'd
always wondered about that one (

However I don't see Manor Park - Woodgrange Park listed - is that because
the five minute walk is considered too long, the interchange in Forest Gate
or some other factor?

Single fare from 2nd Jan

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:51:31 -0000, "Peter Smyth"
wrote:

Here they are

[big huge OSI list]

Thanks for that - duly saved. There are some very interesting
combinations on that list. It also throws up some options I would not
have deduced such as interchange between halves of NR termini, Bromley
South - Bromley North plus allowing Waterloo East to Embankment as an
OSI via the Thames footbridge.

Looking at the 21 permutations at Waterloo and Waterloo East, I see there is
no OSI between Jubilee and LU (Bakerloo/Northern) - will this be because
there is full interchange behind the gateline? Or might it just be missing?

One that I think has been mentioned before but doesn't appear is the two
Edgware Rd LU stations - of course now they are not shown as an interchange
anymore this is less important?

I thought some of the longer 'NR - NR' OSIs are a little unexpected, such as
Paddington/Marylebone, and Euston/St Pancras/Kings Cross - but they're
logical if they've assumed that some pax will walk and bypass the
underground...

Paul S

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 9 Dec, 22:48, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:22:23 -0600,
wrote:

Not between Putney and East Putney, I see.

An interesting point - are any existing NR tickets routed via that
interchange? * Richmond to Wimbledon?

Waterloo East (NR) - Embankment (LU) (30)
Waterloo *(NR) - Embankment (LU) (25)

A reasonable OSI for NR to Embankment I suppose, but why is less time
allowed from the main station than the slightly closer Waterloo East?

I think I'd argue that Waterloo East is actually slightly further away.

More importantly, the main, and sometimes only, route to Waterloo East
is to go through Waterloo first. It's the walking route that matters;
not the crowfly distance.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 10 Dec, 00:34, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 9 Dec, 22:48, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:22:23 -0600,
wrote:

Not between Putney and East Putney, I see.

An interesting point - are any existing NR tickets routed via that
interchange? * Richmond to Wimbledon?

I only mentioned it because it's been raised here and Putney is my home
town. I think I said at the time I couldn't see what plausible routes
would use it.

Waterloo East (NR) - Embankment (LU) (30)
Waterloo *(NR) - Embankment (LU) (25)

A reasonable OSI for NR to Embankment I suppose, but why is less time
allowed from the main station than the slightly closer Waterloo East?

I think I'd argue that Waterloo East is actually slightly further
away.

More importantly, the main, and sometimes only, route to Waterloo East
is to go through Waterloo first. *It's the walking route that matters;
not the crowfly distance.

I thought there was a route via Waterloo Road (past the Wellington)?
That's the on I thought might be shorter. There's not much in it either
way, hence my surprise at there being a difference.

That would involve more road crossing, and I'd agree with Paul that
it's still slightly further anyway.

I'd use the that other entrance, if you mean the one in Sandall
Street, if I was approaching from the east side of Waterloo Bridge,
but not from Embankment, which would lead me to the relatively
pedestrian-friendly route through Waterloo main.

It's also closed earlier, presumably to avoid the staircase being
filled with dossers or something. (Not related to that thought, I
passed Tom Winsor on that staircase once.)

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:42:15 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:40:37 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:51:31 -0000, "Peter Smyth"
wrote:

Here they are

[big huge OSI list]

Looking at the 21 permutations at Waterloo and Waterloo East, I see there is
no OSI between Jubilee and LU (Bakerloo/Northern) - will this be because
there is full interchange behind the gateline? Or might it just be missing?

I would contend that it is not missing. It is simply that there is a
full and proper interchange within the gated area that is the shortest
route between those lines. There isn't an OSI today so there is no
compelling reason why there should be one in January.

It would be nice if there was an OSI at London Bridge for step free
interchange between the Northern and Jubilee. At the moment I'm fairly
certain that requires going via the street and an extra journey.

David

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 10 Dec, 09:49, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 10 Dec, 00:34, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 9 Dec, 22:48, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:22:23 -0600,
wrote:

Waterloo East (NR) - Embankment (LU) (30)
Waterloo *(NR) - Embankment (LU) (25)

A reasonable OSI for NR to Embankment I suppose, but why is less
time allowed from the main station than the slightly closer
Waterloo East?

I think I'd argue that Waterloo East is actually slightly further
away.

More importantly, the main, and sometimes only, route to Waterloo
East is to go through Waterloo first. *It's the walking route that
matters; not the crowfly distance.

I thought there was a route via Waterloo Road (past the Wellington)?
That's the on I thought might be shorter. There's not much in it
either way, hence my surprise at there being a difference.

That would involve more road crossing, and I'd agree with Paul that
it's still slightly further anyway.

I'd use the that other entrance, if you mean the one in Sandall
Street, if I was approaching from the east side of Waterloo Bridge,
but not from Embankment, which would lead me to the relatively
pedestrian-friendly route through Waterloo main.

It's also closed earlier, presumably to avoid the staircase being
filled with dossers or something. *(Not related to that thought, I
passed Tom Winsor on that staircase once.)

Maybe you're right. I suppose it's the routes we know. I always thought
the route from the main station to Hungerford Bridge was badly messed
about when walkways were added and removed or blocked over the years.

It has been messed about, but I think it's pretty good now.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:38:43 -0000, "Recliner"
wrote:

I was agreeably surprised to discover yesterday that the Kings Cross
St Pancras LU station remain an OSI, even though it's no longer
necessary. I went to have a look at the new northern ticket office,
exiting from one of the old LU gatelines and re-entering a few
minutes later via the new northern gateline. My Oyster fare to the
station was zeroed out as it's treated as an OSI, even though I
could have changed LU lines without passing any gatelines.

Well it has to remain an OSI because PAYG is valid on GN services to
Finsbury Park and PAYG is valid on FCC to West Hampstead and south to
Elephant and LOB. As these parts of the Kings Cross complex have
separate gatelines then the LU site has to remain a OSI too.

Yes, I knew about those, and have taken advantage of them in the past,
but I was surprised to find that OSI still applied even to pure LU
transfers. I hadn't thought of the MIP lifts issue, though.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

[OSI list]

(snip)
Bank (LU) - Cannon Street (LU) (15)
Bank (LU) - Cannon Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Liverpool Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Mansion House (LU) (15)
Bank Central / Northern / DLR (LU) - Bank Waterloo & City (LU) (15)
Bank Waterloo & City (LU) - Bank Central / Northern / DLR (LU) (15)
(snip)
Monument (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)

But not Monument (LU) to Bank (LU) (or vice versa)?

There is a large poster at Monument telling people that changing to
Bank at street level won't cost extra on Oystercards. Is that just a
temporary arrangement during the escalator works?

PaulO

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 10 Dec, 13:57, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 10 Dec, 09:49, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 10 Dec, 00:34, wrote:
In article
,
(MIG) wrote:
On 9 Dec, 22:48, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:22:23 -0600,
wrote:

Waterloo East (NR) - Embankment (LU) (30)
Waterloo *(NR) - Embankment (LU) (25)

A reasonable OSI for NR to Embankment I suppose, but why is
less time allowed from the main station than the slightly
closer Waterloo East?

I think I'd argue that Waterloo East is actually slightly
away further

More importantly, the main, and sometimes only, route to
Waterloo East is to go through Waterloo first. *It's the
walking route that matters; not the crowfly distance.

I thought there was a route via Waterloo Road (past the
Wellington)? That's the on I thought might be shorter. There's
not much in it either way, hence my surprise at there being a
difference.

That would involve more road crossing, and I'd agree with Paul that
it's still slightly further anyway.

I'd use the that other entrance, if you mean the one in Sandall
Street, if I was approaching from the east side of Waterloo Bridge,
but not from Embankment, which would lead me to the relatively
pedestrian-friendly route through Waterloo main.

It's also closed earlier, presumably to avoid the staircase being
filled with dossers or something. *(Not related to that thought, I
passed Tom Winsor on that staircase once.)

Maybe you're right. I suppose it's the routes we know. I always
thought the route from the main station to Hungerford Bridge was
badly messed about when walkways were added and removed or blocked
over the *years.

It has been messed about, but I think it's pretty good now.

You mean they've reopened the route through the Shell building?

Ah, no (as far as I know), but that's more a route from Jubilee
Gardens whotnot.

I was thinking straight down the northeastern side of Hungerford
Bridge and down some steps and come out opposite the pedestrian
crossings and into Waterloo.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

Thanks a lot Paul C. for posting up the info. I always assumed for
Camden Town and Camden Road to be a valid OSI but the following
example shows a fare anomaly.

Tufnell Park - Hackney Central

Oyster PAYG Peak / Off Peak
up till 1.1.10 : £2.20 / £1.60
from 2.1.10 : £2.30 / £1.80

This clearly shows that the route is priced via Zone 1, but it is far
easier and more direct to go via Northern Line to Camden Town, walk to
Camden Road ( valid OSI) and catch London Overground to Hackney
Central ? Yet neither of the TFL Fare Finder searches show the cheaper
( non Zone 1) alternative fare ? You can go from Wembley Central to
Hackney Central via LU to Willesden Junction and LO from there. An
alternative cheaper fare is available even though Wembley Central is
further out in terms of distance to Tufnell Pk. ???!!!! Is there an
error here ? Folk in NW6 seem hard done by !

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 10 Dec, 13:38, Paul Oter wrote:
[OSI list]

(snip)

Bank (LU) - Cannon Street (LU) (15)
Bank (LU) - Cannon Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Liverpool Street *(NR) (40)
Bank (LU) - Mansion House (LU) (15)
Bank Central / Northern / DLR (LU) - Bank Waterloo & City (LU) (15)
Bank Waterloo & City (LU) - Bank Central / Northern / DLR (LU) (15)
(snip)
Monument (LU) - Fenchurch Street (NR) (40)

But not Monument (LU) to Bank (LU) (or vice versa)?

There is a large poster at Monument telling people that changing to
Bank at street level won't cost extra on Oystercards. Is that just a
temporary arrangement during the escalator works?

PaulO

Just during the escalator works. Once complete, you'll be expected to
stay inside the gates & use the travelator.

I have problems with the LU - NR OSIs. Folks won't want to touch back
in until their train is due - and if you've 55 minutes to wait (for an
hourly service perhaps?), you might not realise that you're time
limited & need to wait on the NR platform, not on the concourse.....

Single fare from 2nd Jan

Apologies for hijacking this thread but I've been checking the TfL
Fare Finder and it seems that if you travel from a LU station north of
Camden Town and want to head to a station west of Camden Road on the
NLL ( making use of the Camden Town / Camden Rd OSI) then you are
given the option of the "alternative" and hence cheaper route. This
option is extended to stations as west as Richmond. Seems very odd and
mightily unfair that if you are starting a journey north of Camden
Town (Northern Line) and heading east on the NLL from Camden Road then
the cheaper alternative is only available to stations up to Highbury
and Islington and then Stratford ( and not stations inbetween i.e.
Dalston K - Hackney Wick ). For any stations east of H & I Tfl are
pricing the journey as via Z1 and expect you to travel on the
Northern line down to Euston, changing onto the Victoria Line to H & I
before catching the NLL. Surely if you made use of the Camden Town /
Camden Road OSI the system would recognise which route you took ( non
Zone 1) and charge you accordingly ??!!
Looks puzzling when one considers that there is a Wembley Central -
Hackney Central "alternative route" Off Peak fare for £1.10
( £1.30) ??

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 10 Dec, 17:35, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
Maybe you're right. I suppose it's the routes we know. I always
thought the route from the main station to Hungerford Bridge was
badly messed about when walkways were added and removed or blocked
over the *years.

It has been messed about, but I think it's pretty good now.

You mean they've reopened the route through the Shell building?

Ah, no (as far as I know), but that's more a route from Jubilee
Gardens whotnot.

I was thinking straight down the northeastern side of Hungerford
Bridge and down some steps and come out opposite the pedestrian
crossings and into Waterloo.

Oh, right. Up and down steps quite a bit, but that's inevitable, I suppose.

Well, there's an escalator part of the way (from Waterloo concourse).
The entrance from Sandall Street is a huge staircase all the way, from
the same initial street level.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On Dec 9, 7:13*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:38:43 -0000, "Recliner"

wrote:
I was agreeably surprised to discover yesterday that the Kings Cross St
Pancras LU station remain an OSI, even though it's no longer necessary.
I went to have a look at the new northern ticket office, exiting from
one of the old LU gatelines and re-entering a few minutes later via the
new northern gateline. My Oyster fare to the station was zeroed out as
it's treated as an OSI, even though I could have changed LU lines
without passing any gatelines.

Well it has to remain an OSI because PAYG is valid on GN services to
Finsbury Park and PAYG is valid on FCC to West Hampstead and south to
Elephant and LOB. As these parts of the Kings Cross complex have
separate gatelines then the LU site has to remain a OSI too.

I've not been back since the weekend, but there were signs up last
week warning that, from Sunday, access to the Northern Line platforms
would only be via the new ticket hall, while the MIP lifts were
installed.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

On 9 Dec, 18:51, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

...

On 9 Dec, 02:04, Barry Salter wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
I haven't attempted to work out the numbers but there will be a
considerable increase in OSIs and their complexity come 2/1/10. As
an
example just think about Waterloo NR, Waterloo W&C, Waterloo LUL,
Waterloo East and Southwark. Potentially all one complex! - whether
it
ends up as one I can't say.

Conveniently, a list of OSIs from 2nd January has now appeared on
"The
Manual"[1] and there are just under 200 pairs given.

Well, don't keep us in suspense, Barry - you can answer Paul's
query....

Here they are

Paddington (NR Gates) (NR) - Paddington (NR Validators) (NR) (20)
Paddington (NR Validators) (NR) - Paddington (NR Gates) (NR) (20)

I had wondered what these NR Validators were, but I now see that
validators have been installed along platform 8 at Paddington (also
covering platform 9). There don't seem to be any for platforms 1 to
5.

Airline self-check in is now available for a few airlines at the HEX
ticket office, but you still have to use the bag drop at Heathrow.

Single fare from 2nd Jan

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message
...

I had wondered what these NR Validators were, but I now see that
validators have been installed along platform 8 at Paddington (also
covering platform 9). There don't seem to be any for platforms 1 to
5.

P1-5 are dedicated to services that do not stop within the zones, the lack
of validators will help get that point across.

Paul S