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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 22:07, wrote:
In article , (JD) wrote: The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Isn't Liverpool St to Stratford valid for PAYG now and therefore won't need an OEP? -- Colin Rosenstiel On 14 Dec, 00:36, wrote: In article , (MIG) wrote: Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid? OEPs don't exist until 2 January. After then NR appears to divided into two classes, where PAYG is valid today and where PAYG is extended from 2 January. Only the latter will need OEPs. -- Colin Rosenstiel The rule is simpler than that starting within zones of TC - travelling on NR train beyond zones of Travelcard - OEP required. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. -- Paul C The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. No, you only need an OEP if you are starting within the zones of your Travelcard and then travelling outside your zones. correct - starting within zone - travelling beyond zone on NR train |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:51, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message ... On 13 Dec, 13:14, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever since seasons onOysterbecame available, because there is no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline... Paul S They will pay the Mixed Travel Entry / Exit (maximum fare) charge - just as they have done since September |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this point as you have quoted above. I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street). 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines". I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen something more definitive care to say what it is you've read? -- Paul C Stating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than TfL fare) However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg regards |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this point as you have quoted above. I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street). 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines". I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen something more definitive care to say what it is you've read? -- Paul C Stating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (except Victoria to Balham) - not that "you will pay the TfL fare" e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare)) There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than TfL fare) However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg regards |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote:
Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I got this wrong. As has been pointed out - this is a route that currently accepts payg If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F) the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90) All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50 |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 16:51, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever since seasons onOysterbecame available, because there is no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline... They will pay the Mixed Travel Entry / Exit (maximum fare) charge - just as they have done since September You've just dived in out of context. We are discussing someone who doesn't bother to touch in outside his travelcard zones. He will be travelling without a ticket, the system cannot guess whereabouts he didn't touch in... Paul S |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 20:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:41:46 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: [big snip] Stating fact - not an opinion. *Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). *Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" Sorry but it absolutely does NOT say that. *This is what it says "You pay Tube, DLR and London OvergroundOystersingle fares when you useOysteron lines that accepted pay as you go before 2010 (except Balham-Victoria)." * *Stratford to Liverpool Street is a 2009 line which charges LUL fares. It is also interavailable with LUL lines and has been for donkey's years. e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) Yes it is charged on that basis but only because Liv St - Stratford has long standing interavailability with the parallel tube lines. *There is more than one concept at play here and that has to be remembered. There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) I agree - as it is today. Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than Through fare) No it will NOT! *See above - it will be charged at LU rates as it is today. However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg Correct but then it is a different example. -- Paul C Again - I am stating what will actually happen, not what you believe will be the case. Again - check the Single fare finder 2010 for Liverpool Street NR - Stratford. The fare quote is correct. Yes, I work for TfL |
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