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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
Basic question I know, but if you hold a monthly Travelcard on Oyster from
zones 1-3 and you want to travel to zone 5, do you just add a few PAYG quid to the card to cover the additional fare? Thanks, Ian -- |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
Ian F. wrote:
Basic question I know, but if you hold a monthly Travelcard on Oyster from zones 1-3 and you want to travel to zone 5, do you just add a few PAYG quid to the card to cover the additional fare? Thanks, Ian That should do it. You can also just touch out, and the amount will be debited to your card. But you won't be able to re-enter the system until you have paid the card's debt. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
In message , Ian F.
writes Basic question I know, but if you hold a monthly Travelcard on Oyster from zones 1-3 and you want to travel to zone 5, do you just add a few PAYG quid to the card to cover the additional fare? Yes, but note that from 2/1/2010 you will also need to load an Oyster Extension Permit if you are travelling beyond Zone 3 on National Rail. -- Paul Terry |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... When entering the system outside of your zonal validity then the gate or validator will make the appropriate deduction of an entry charge as if the journey was being done on PAYG entirely. Therefore there is no need for an OEP to be present (as I understand matters). That's how I read it from the various 'official' info sources. And if OEPs definitely are only a 'directional' requirement, (ie in zones to out) it does suggest that some of the perceived problems discussed here, such as a lack of ability to load an OEP 'out in the sticks' at TOC stations, are not going to be as widespread as some posters seem to assume... Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... Paul S |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0000, "Paul Scott" wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message . .. When entering the system outside of your zonal validity then the gate or validator will make the appropriate deduction of an entry charge as if the journey was being done on PAYG entirely. Therefore there is no need for an OEP to be present (as I understand matters). That's how I read it from the various 'official' info sources. It certainly reads like that from the TfL pages. It seems it isn't terribly clear in people's heads as there is a Mayor's question on exactly this issue next week. http://www.london.gov.uk/mqt/public/...on.do?id=29203 Someone doesn't understand how it works. She really ought to try posting some of her questions here. IIRC there have already been a few that could have been answered by refering to information already in the public domain... Paul S |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. -- Paul C The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard on Oyster card Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch 2) Z2-6 Travelcard on Oyster card Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR only Oyster pay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
wrote in message
... That should do it. Reading all the replies, I suppose I should have pointed out that the extension to the Oyster Travelcard is to be used on NR where PAYG is not accepted yet. Seems this will make a difference. I assume I'll need a paper extension (boundary zone 3 zone5). Ian |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. -- Paul C The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard on Oyster card Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch 2) Z2-6 Travelcard on Oyster card Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR only Oyster pay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
"JD" wrote in message ... On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. -- Paul C The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. No, you only need an OEP if you are starting within the zones of your Travelcard and then travelling outside your zones. 2) Z2-6 Travelcard on Oyster card Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR only Oyster pay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch In this case you are touching in outside your zones, so an Entry charge will be deducted whether you have an OEP or not. Peter Smyth |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:23:41 -0000, Peter Smyth wrote:
2) Z2-6 Travelcard on Oyster card Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR only Oyster pay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch In this case you are touching in outside your zones, so an Entry charge will be deducted whether you have an OEP or not. Elephant & Castle is on the Z1/2 boundary, so it's not outside the zones of the Travelcard. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
After 2/1/10 when PAYG is extended then the same basic principle applies. However if travelling on NR lines [1] to outside of your ticket validity but inside the zonal area you will require an OEP to be set on your card. This applies when you start from a station that is in the zonal validity of your ticket. You also need to have £1.50 worth of value on your card as the minimum. The £1.50 or more needs to be loaded to your PAYG balance *before* you set the OEP. The OEP will not set if there is less than £1.50 on your balance. On 13 Dec, 13:14, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? On 13 Dec, 15:00, "Ian F." wrote: Reading all the replies, I suppose I should have pointed out that the extension to the Oyster Travelcard is to be used on NR where PAYG is not accepted yet. Seems this will make a difference. I assume I'll need a paper extension (boundary zone 3 zone5). Currently, yes, buy a paper extension, or book online from your boundary station to your destination. After January 2, all NR stations within the zones will with accept PAYG, along with Watford Junction & three stations around Grays in Essex. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
"Chris" wrote in message
... Currently, yes, buy a paper extension, or book online from your boundary station to your destination. ++++++++++++ Thanks Chris and all who replied. Ian |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
"Chris" wrote in message ... On 13 Dec, 13:14, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever since seasons on Oyster became available, because there is no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline... Paul S |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 22:07, wrote:
In article , (JD) wrote: The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard on Oyster card Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Isn't Liverpool St to Stratford valid for PAYG now and therefore won't need an OEP? -- Colin Rosenstiel Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid? |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this point as you have quoted above. I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street). 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines". I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen something more definitive care to say what it is you've read? -- Paul C Stating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than Through fare) However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg regards |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 00:36, wrote:
In article , (MIG) wrote: Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid? OEPs don't exist until 2 January. After then NR appears to divided into two classes, where PAYG is valid today and where PAYG is extended from 2 January. Only the latter will need OEPs. -- Colin Rosenstiel The rule is simpler than that NR train beyond zones of Travelcard - OEP required. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this point as you have quoted above. I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street). 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines". I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen something more definitive care to say what it is you've read? -- Paul C tating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than TfL fare) However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg regard |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 15:23, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"JD" wrote in message ... On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. -- Paul C The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. No, you only need an OEP if you are starting within the zones of your Travelcard and then travelling outside your zones. 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch In this case you are touching in outside your zones, so an Entry charge will be deducted whether you have an OEP or not. Peter Smyth correct - starting within zone - travelling beyond zone on NR train |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 22:07, wrote:
In article , (JD) wrote: The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Isn't Liverpool St to Stratford valid for PAYG now and therefore won't need an OEP? -- Colin Rosenstiel On 14 Dec, 00:36, wrote: In article , (MIG) wrote: Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid? OEPs don't exist until 2 January. After then NR appears to divided into two classes, where PAYG is valid today and where PAYG is extended from 2 January. Only the latter will need OEPs. -- Colin Rosenstiel The rule is simpler than that starting within zones of TC - travelling on NR train beyond zones of Travelcard - OEP required. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. -- Paul C The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train. No, you only need an OEP if you are starting within the zones of your Travelcard and then travelling outside your zones. correct - starting within zone - travelling beyond zone on NR train |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:51, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message ... On 13 Dec, 13:14, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever since seasons onOysterbecame available, because there is no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline... Paul S They will pay the Mixed Travel Entry / Exit (maximum fare) charge - just as they have done since September |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this point as you have quoted above. I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street). 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines". I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen something more definitive care to say what it is you've read? -- Paul C Stating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than TfL fare) However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg regards |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F." [1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff. The rule will be: If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding that train Two examples: 1) Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard Liverpool Street NR to Stratford OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare (which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge) NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare OEP removed by exit touch Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this point as you have quoted above. I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street). 2) Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines". I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen something more definitive care to say what it is you've read? -- Paul C Stating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (except Victoria to Balham) - not that "you will pay the TfL fare" e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare)) There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than TfL fare) However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg regards |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote:
Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I got this wrong. As has been pointed out - this is a route that currently accepts payg If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F) the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90) All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50 |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
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Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 16:51, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever since seasons onOysterbecame available, because there is no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline... They will pay the Mixed Travel Entry / Exit (maximum fare) charge - just as they have done since September You've just dived in out of context. We are discussing someone who doesn't bother to touch in outside his travelcard zones. He will be travelling without a ticket, the system cannot guess whereabouts he didn't touch in... Paul S |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 20:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:41:46 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: [big snip] Stating fact - not an opinion. *Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). *Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" Sorry but it absolutely does NOT say that. *This is what it says "You pay Tube, DLR and London OvergroundOystersingle fares when you useOysteron lines that accepted pay as you go before 2010 (except Balham-Victoria)." * *Stratford to Liverpool Street is a 2009 line which charges LUL fares. It is also interavailable with LUL lines and has been for donkey's years. e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) Yes it is charged on that basis but only because Liv St - Stratford has long standing interavailability with the parallel tube lines. *There is more than one concept at play here and that has to be remembered. There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) I agree - as it is today. Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than Through fare) No it will NOT! *See above - it will be charged at LU rates as it is today. However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg Correct but then it is a different example. -- Paul C Again - I am stating what will actually happen, not what you believe will be the case. Again - check the Single fare finder 2010 for Liverpool Street NR - Stratford. The fare quote is correct. Yes, I work for TfL |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote: Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that currently accepts payg Yes you did get it wrong. If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F) the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90) Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80. All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50 No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo - Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall (and variants thereof). Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those. -- Paul C Again - the example was an Oyster card with a valid 1-2 Travelcard. The extension fares quoted are correct |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 20:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:41:46 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: [big snip] Stating fact - not an opinion. *Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative fun! Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2 Jan 2010. All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to Balham). *Not that "you will pay the TfL fare" Sorry but it absolutely does NOT say that. *This is what it says "You pay Tube, DLR and London OvergroundOystersingle fares when you useOysteron lines that accepted pay as you go before 2010 (except Balham-Victoria)." * *Stratford to Liverpool Street is a 2009 line which charges LUL fares. It is also interavailable with LUL lines and has been for donkey's years. e.g. Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper than the Through (TfL+NR fare) Yes it is charged on that basis but only because Liv St - Stratford has long standing interavailability with the parallel tube lines. *There is more than one concept at play here and that has to be remembered. There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you change to NR at Liverpool Street or not Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares (obviously) I agree - as it is today. Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than Through fare) No it will NOT! *See above - it will be charged at LU rates as it is today. However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does not accept payg Correct but then it is a different example. -- Paul C The TfL website text: You pay Tube, DLR and London Overground Oyster single fares when you use Oyster on lines that accepted pay as you go before 2010 (except Balham-Victoria). is misleading. The system will technically charge using the TfL fare scale, but will cap the single fare at the NR price if the NR fare is lower. No doubt you have the printed booklet: Oyster pay as you go on National Rail From January 2010 (Transport for London / National Rail co-branded) Page 3 - third bullet: On National Rail routes previously accepting pay as you go, you will not pay more than the Tube, DLR or London Overground pay as you go fares. is more accurate. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 14:01, "Paul Scott" wrote:
JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 16:51, "Paul Scott" wrote: Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now... But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what (penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance? None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever since seasons onOysterbecame available, because there is no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline... They will pay the Mixed Travel Entry / Exit (maximum fare) charge - just as they have done since September You've just dived in out of context. We are discussing someone who doesn't bother to touch in outside his travelcard zones. He will be travelling without a ticket, the system cannot guess whereabouts he didn't touch in... Paul S Which is why I removed the post pretty quickly after posting. Unforunately, the mistake was replied to, and replied to and replied to....... |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote: Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that currently accepts payg Yes you did get it wrong. If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F) the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90) Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80. All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50 No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo - Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall (and variants thereof). Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those. -- Paul C The example was an Oyster card with a valid Z2-6 Travelcard loaded. The extension fare quotes are correct. kind regards |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
JD wrote:
Which is why I removed the post pretty quickly after posting. Unforunately, the mistake was replied to, and replied to and replied to....... No probs - in the wider usenet (rather than Google) deleting doesn't seem to have much effect! Paul S |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote: Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that currently accepts payg Yes you did get it wrong. If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F) the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90) Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80. All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50 No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo - Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall (and variants thereof). Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those. -- Paul C Example was Z2-6 Travelcard on Oyster charge would be for Z1 I agree - would be charged TfL fare in this case £1.80 at all times |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:30:21 -0800 (PST), JD
wrote: Which is why I removed the post pretty quickly after posting. Unforunately, the mistake was replied to, and replied to and replied to....... Trouble is that most news servers don't process cancel messages. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Travel beyond your Travelcard's validity
On 14 Dec, 22:53, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:50:04 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote: On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote: Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town OEP set before entry Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare) OEP removed by exit touch I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that currently accepts payg Yes you did get it wrong. If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F) the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90) Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80. All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50 No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo - Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall (and variants thereof). Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those. Example was Z2-6 Travelcard onOyster charge would be for Z1 I agree - would be charged TfL fare in this case £1.80 at all times OK - I concede defeat on all counts and on all examples. *You work for TfL and in this particular area and you're getting it wrong and so am I? tears up application for priv rate PAYG card immodest If I can't understand it then no one can. immodest -- Paul C- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It is complicated. I don't work for Fares & Ticketing. I can confirm that the fares quoted by the Single fare finder are what will be charged on 2 Jan though. I will not post again until I have had a good night's sleep :-) |
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