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Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Mark Hynes wrote:
There's no difference surely between that situation and someone with a paper travelcard exiting outside their zones, surely? Actually, there is a difference - with a paper ticket the passenger will (likely) know they're outside their zones and should be paying something extra, somehow. A passenger with both a travelcard and PAYG credit on their Oyster card is likely to think they'll have some credit deducted when they leave and not have any idea what an OEP is. (I know this has been done before, but it's still crazy) As you say, when challenged by an RPI the guy outside of his paper TC zones has no defence - it's a fair cop. OTOH the 'Oyster passenger' you describe can say 'I am going to touch out on exit' if challenged, but still not bother... Paul S |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 19:09, Jonathan Harris wrote:
On 3 Jan, 17:40, "Paul Scott" wrote: Chris wrote: On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote: The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster validators - and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no. ISTM you've missed the very point of the previous post. He explained exactly why OEPs are needed. At unbarriered stations there is nothing whatsoever to stop a passenger who entered elsewhere with a season travelcard ignoring a validator. *The TOCs aren't prepared to take that obvious revenue risk - but TfL do already, and are prepared to accept it. Paul S But ISTR that the only ungated stations on the underground are Mill Hill East (because they don't fit) and Roding Valley (because the number of passengers doesn't justify it). *If TfL want to leave barriers open somewhere to save on staff costs and then be subject to revenue risk, that's a different matter. I appreciate that there are now plenty of LO stations wthout barriers and various 'open' interfaces with National Rail but the number is small relative to the number of NR stations that are ungated. Jonathan Finsbury Park is not gated, and one entrance at West Harrow and Finchley Central aren't either. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Rupert Candy wrote
On Jan 3, 12:51*pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: You cannot register Gold Cards or Network Cards onto Oyster cards And this, to my mind, is the biggest fudge of the whole lot. The whole point of the Gold Card is that it recognises the loyalty of those who put up ~2 grand in advance, and the Oyster card must 'know' it holds an annual season. How hard would it be for said annual season to trigger an automatic 'Railcard' flag, thus allowing Gold Card holders the same reduced cap as (e.g.) YP card holders? As discussed here, the cheapest Gold card is less than £150 (forget whether it is between Ryde - Ryde Pierhead or Exeter/other Exeter). And Gold (and Network) card discounts only kick in after 10:00 M-F so don't match the 9:30 off-peak start of Railcards and NR/Tfl. Allow registration for W/E only ? -- Mike D |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Neil Williams wrote:
The solution to all this is to remove all situations (other than equipment failure) where you'd legitimately touch in using an Oyster and not touch out. This would be done by changing paper BZ extensions such that they are valid for any journey from inside the Zones the Travelcard is valid for to the specified destination, but are shown as only valid when carrying the specific numbered Oyster card shown (and checked) at purchase (to prevent double-use). It's a solution but it doesn't take into account the number of stations that are simply not physically designed for the peak hour crowds to all have stop to use readers, let alone barriers. My local station, Forest Gate, is just one where the evening crowd is so big that I can easily see chaos, fights and people risking their lives by crossing the fast tracks to the quiet platform all for the sake of getting out of the station quicker rather than waiting an eternity to squeeze through a narrow hallway with only a couple of readers - and having to deal with London bound passengers fighting to get to their own platform. The station just isn't designed * for that and for that matter it will also create problems on the trains and at Stratford because even more people will be trying to wedge themselves into the front carriages in the hope of getting out quicker. Until the station, and many like it, are designed to make the crowd flow smoother, requiring everyone to touch out will be utterly unworkable. (* Actually when originally built Forest Gate was actually reasonably designed for this because stopping services used what are now the fast tracks and vice versa. On that configuration the evening peak crowd would have used platform 4 which had both its own staircase to the ticket hall and also a ramp to a direct street exit. The staircase has now been bricked up.) |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On Jan 3, 8:19*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote On Jan 3, 12:51*pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: You cannot register Gold Cards or Network Cards onto Oyster cards And this, to my mind, is the biggest fudge of the whole lot. *The whole point of the Gold Card is that it recognises the loyalty of those who put up ~2 grand in advance, and the Oyster card must 'know' it holds an annual season. *How hard would it be for said annual season to trigger an automatic 'Railcard' flag, thus allowing Gold Card holders the same reduced cap as (e.g.) YP card holders? As discussed here, the cheapest Gold card is less than £150 (forget whether it is between Ryde - Ryde Pierhead or Exeter/other Exeter). That's still quite a lot more than the cost of any other Railcard (particularly if you're never actually going to get any Ryde-Ryde travel for your 150 quid). And Gold (and Network) card discounts only kick in after 10:00 M-F so don't match the *9:30 off-peak start of Railcards and NR/Tfl. Allow registration for W/E only ? It's just that the USP of having a Travelcard Season on Oyster (and, frankly, the reason why I went out of my way to get my Z1-5 on Oyster rather than just buying a paper season from my local Southeastern station) has always been that it's possible to extend its validity using pre-pay (where valid, obviously) *without* having to plan in advance and buy some sort of extension ticket. I accept that OEPs have made a complete mockery of that advantage insofar as NR is concerned, but we now have a situation where, at least off-peak, it is *never* worthwhile for a Gold Card holder to use pre-pay to extend their zones on NR, rather than buying a paper, discounted extension. That seems entirely counter to the spirit of Oyster and the (semi-) integrated zonal fare system, not to mention completely bonkers to an outside observer. Sorry, I'm really quite cross about this. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 20:46:14 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: Until the station, and many like it, are designed to make the crowd flow smoother, requiring everyone to touch out will be utterly unworkable. But it *wouldn't* require everyone to touch out. Only those who have some PAYG credit. (I think that's a "user friendlier" way of making the differentiation than the OEP - "you have to have the money on your card before you start your journey if you wish to go out of zone"). Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 15:32, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:20:19 -0800 (PST), Daniel wrote: It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. Yes, I think that could happen. For example, the holder of a Z23 Travelcard wishes to travel from Finsbury Park (Z2) to Thornton Heath (Z4), changing at Moorgate (Z1) and Balham (Z2). An OEP is needed from the start of the journey, due to starting at a LU station and travelling out-of-zone on FCC. However, this OEP is removed by the touch-out at Balham (LU) (due to having travelled out-of-zone), so a second OEP needs to be added in order to avoid a PF when travelling out-of-zone (again...) to Thornton Heath on Southern. Would it be removed at Balham though? Balham is in the zones and the route could have been via Finsbury Park. It doesn't seem likely that it would work that way based on assumed route unless you touched out at an NR-only station in zone 1. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
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Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 20:02, Matthew Dickinson
wrote: On 3 Jan, 19:09, Jonathan Harris wrote: On 3 Jan, 17:40, "Paul Scott" wrote: Chris wrote: On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote: The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster validators - and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no. ISTM you've missed the very point of the previous post. He explained exactly why OEPs are needed. At unbarriered stations there is nothing whatsoever to stop a passenger who entered elsewhere with a season travelcard ignoring a validator. *The TOCs aren't prepared to take that obvious revenue risk - but TfL do already, and are prepared to accept it. Paul S But ISTR that the only ungated stations on the underground are Mill Hill East (because they don't fit) and Roding Valley (because the number of passengers doesn't justify it). *If TfL want to leave barriers open somewhere to save on staff costs and then be subject to revenue risk, that's a different matter. I appreciate that there are now plenty of LO stations wthout barriers and various 'open' interfaces with National Rail but the number is small relative to the number of NR stations that are ungated. Jonathan Finsbury Park is not gated, and one entrance at *West Harrow and Finchley Central aren't either. Er ... and the whole of the DLR. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 15:22:05 -0600,
wrote: You cannot register Gold Cards or Network Cards onto Oyster cards Another stupidity then. It is bloody silly. I don't see why the system can't cope with just giving a weekend discount on the Network Card cap. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
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