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Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel
from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote:
I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. It looks like we have a problem.... |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote:
On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem.... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." See http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...20briefing.pdf. It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem.... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P..... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. The more I read about all this, the more confused I get! DP |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
.....
In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P..... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:20, Daniel wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available.. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem.... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. The more I read about all this, the more confused I get! Well, in the OEP staff briefing it says, in one place "Once the OEP is loaded, when the customer touches-in to start a journey even if it is within a Zone covered by their Season ticket, an entry charge will be deducted from the card. If they touch-out still within the Zonal coverage of their Season ticket, the entry charge will be refunded and the OEP will remain on the card. If they touch-out in another Zone the fare for the additional travel will be deducted from the entry charge, the PAYG balance will be adjusted accordingly and the OEP will be cancelled." There's another paragraph in the same document which says "If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested, you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones covered by their season ticket." I am still grappling with how you can find a ticket office to cancel your OEP where you couldn't complete your journey by touching out. Maybe it's only for if you are planning a future journey where you don't touch out, eg extending a travelcard outside the zones. So you put an OEP on and don't use it. Then a few days later you go from Euston to Tring with a paper extension to your zones and the train leaves from platform 8, so you touch at a barrier with your travelcard. Presumably your lurking OEP would then clobber you for not touching out at Tring? What a nightmare. At least at Euston you could find an LU office reasonably near to take off the OEP (if you remembered), but that wouldn't be true at all NR stations where the travelcard was valid. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote:
.... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster and the end of penalty fare schemes. TfL's stretching of the rules will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs' expenses. It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. (TfL is becoming worse than Ryanair on this.) |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem.... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P..... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? I can tell you what I have been advised: all NR TVMs that are Oyster enabled should offer options to set / remove OEPs. Enforcement of the £1.50 minimum payg balance is built into the programming. Given the reports elsewhere of some Oyster validators not enabled on 2 Jan - my best guess is that the TVM upgrade has been delayed beyond 2 Jan at at least some NR stations. I will try loading setting / removing an OEP at Queens Road Peckham today. What concerns me more is the lack of knowledge amongst ticket office staff at Charing Cross. That needs to be resolved ASAP. Even if they cannot load / remove OEPs at the ticket office, they must be able to advise customers about OEPs and where they can set / remove them. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:42, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:20, Daniel wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem..... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. The more I read about all this, the more confused I get! Well, in the OEP staff briefing it says, in one place "Once the OEP is loaded, when the customer touches-in to start a journey even if it is within a Zone covered by their Season ticket, an entry charge will be deducted from the card. If they touch-out still within the Zonal coverage of their Season ticket, the entry charge will be refunded and the OEP will remain on the card. If they touch-out in another Zone the fare for the additional travel will be deducted from the entry charge, the PAYG balance will be adjusted accordingly and the OEP will be cancelled." There's another paragraph in the same document which says "If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested, you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones covered by their season ticket." I am still grappling with how you can find a ticket office to cancel your OEP where you couldn't complete your journey by touching out. Maybe it's only for if you are planning a future journey where you don't touch out, eg extending a travelcard outside the zones. So you put an OEP on and don't use it. *Then a few days later you go from Euston to Tring with a paper extension to your zones and the train leaves from platform 8, so you touch at a barrier with your travelcard. *Presumably your lurking OEP would then clobber you for not touching out at Tring? What a nightmare. *At least at Euston you could find an LU office reasonably near to take off the OEP (if you remembered), but that wouldn't be true at all NR stations where the travelcard was valid. Again - the advice I have is that all NR TVMs that are Oyster enabled should also offer the option to set / remove OEPs. I don't know who is responsible for effecting the changes required. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:20, Daniel wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available.. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem.... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. The more I read about all this, the more confused I get! DP If you mean where passengers use an OSI out of zone(s) - no they will not need to load another OEP. When they touch out - OEP is removed and the payg balance resolved for the correct extension fare When they touch back in, out of zone, they will be charged the Mixed Journey Entry / Exit charge - no OEP is required. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:58, JS wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:42, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:20, Daniel wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote: On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote: I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR. Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard. Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem..... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. The more I read about all this, the more confused I get! Well, in the OEP staff briefing it says, in one place "Once the OEP is loaded, when the customer touches-in to start a journey even if it is within a Zone covered by their Season ticket, an entry charge will be deducted from the card. If they touch-out still within the Zonal coverage of their Season ticket, the entry charge will be refunded and the OEP will remain on the card. If they touch-out in another Zone the fare for the additional travel will be deducted from the entry charge, the PAYG balance will be adjusted accordingly and the OEP will be cancelled." There's another paragraph in the same document which says "If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested, you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones covered by their season ticket." I am still grappling with how you can find a ticket office to cancel your OEP where you couldn't complete your journey by touching out. Maybe it's only for if you are planning a future journey where you don't touch out, eg extending a travelcard outside the zones. So you put an OEP on and don't use it. *Then a few days later you go from Euston to Tring with a paper extension to your zones and the train leaves from platform 8, so you touch at a barrier with your travelcard. *Presumably your lurking OEP would then clobber you for not touching out at Tring? What a nightmare. *At least at Euston you could find an LU office reasonably near to take off the OEP (if you remembered), but that wouldn't be true at all NR stations where the travelcard was valid. Again - the advice I have is that all NR TVMs that are Oyster enabled should also offer the option to set / remove OEPs. *I don't know who is responsible for effecting the changes required. Actually, I can't even remember seeing OEPs mentioned anywhere in the Normal world outside of this group. I doubt if several hundred thousand holders of season tickets on Oyster have any idea about them. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote:
I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on other routes? In the meantime - I reckon the advice was sound - you will be charged correctly if you simply touch in and out. (No penalty fare would be enforceable even if they dared to issue). If you have an annual Z1-2, the advice re paper extension would also be sound (I think?). You would benefit from the Gold Card discount applied to the paper ticket(s) that don't apply to your Oyster extension fare. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote: .... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs' expenses. It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming worse than Ryanair on this.) I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson
wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote: .... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs' expenses. It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming worse than Ryanair on this.) I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. Just a reminder - OEPs were insisted on by the TOCs as part of the payg extension agreement. Penalty fares / prosecutions will be issued / instigated by the TOCs and not TfL. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Daniel wrote:
Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. Not necessarily because an OEP appears to be a one way requirement. If you initially touch in 'outside' your TC zones clearly you must be travelling on PAYG already when you reach your zones. But what happens if you pass through your zones and out the other side must depend on if you have to cross a barrier line en route as you suggest. Not sure on that one... Paul S |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson
wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote: .... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs' expenses. It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming worse than Ryanair on this.) I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. But there's still that concept of "journey" that isn't defined. I am still grappling. Let's say I live near Stratford and have a zone 1 - 3 season ticket and want to go to Hadley Wood (zone 6). Wherever I get on, if it's the weekend and I change at Kings Cross, then presumably, even if I think my journey started at Stratford, the journey that counts for the gripper starts at Kings Cross NR and doesn't need an OEP, or does it? During the week, if I start at Stratford and go via Moorgate (no touching on the way) I should have an OEP because I start at an LU station. But if I touch in at Maryland (NR) and go via Stratford and Moorgate (no touching) I don't need an OEP? |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
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Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
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Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 12:24, JS wrote:
On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote: .... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs' expenses. It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming worse than Ryanair on this.) I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. Just a reminder - OEPs were insisted on by the TOCs as part of the payg extension agreement. *Penalty fares / prosecutions will be issued / instigated by the TOCs and not TfL. True; fair point. I was using "TfL" when I should have said "the London setup" or something, although TfL has gone along with it. My initial reaction to the news of OEPs was that TOCs had been forced to accept Oyster and were determined to sabotage it by making it unusable. That opinion hasn't changed. TfL's willingness to go along with it will end up killing off Oyster for TfL as well. Perhaps that suits a political agenda. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
MIG wrote:
In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." What happens at the joint stations like Stratford or Richmond? Is there a consistent rule or does the passenger have to know how the station has been designated? |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
MIG wrote:
Wherever I get on, if it's the weekend and I change at Kings Cross, then presumably, even if I think my journey started at Stratford, the journey that counts for the gripper starts at Kings Cross NR and doesn't need an OEP, or does it? I think it definitely does. The wording on the public Oyster site is: "You only need to set an Oyster Extension Permit when you start a journey within the zones covered by your Travelcard and want to travel outside those zones on National Rail." It doesn't differentiate between NR and TfL services at start of journey. The internal briefing for TfL staff referred to earlier seems to be badly written - but clearly they aren't operating NR stations. ISTM that briefing NR and TfL staff differently is just symptomatic of the parochial nature of these organisations... Paul S |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
MIG wrote:
Well, in the OEP staff briefing it says, in one place "Once the OEP is loaded, when the customer touches-in to start a journey even if it is within a Zone covered by their Season ticket, an entry charge will be deducted from the card. If they touch-out still within the Zonal coverage of their Season ticket, the entry charge will be refunded and the OEP will remain on the card. If they touch-out in another Zone the fare for the additional travel will be deducted from the entry charge, the PAYG balance will be adjusted accordingly and the OEP will be cancelled." Okay the nightmare station for Oyster - Wimbledon. What if you have a stored OEP but enter the barriers to use the tram? |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
JS wrote:
I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. Just a reminder - OEPs were insisted on by the TOCs as part of the payg extension agreement. Penalty fares / prosecutions will be issued / instigated by the TOCs and not TfL. So the interesting legal point - can a TOC legally enforce a penalty fare if it can be shown that the correct ticket was not available to passengers at the starting station? |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 13:03, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 04:53:52 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote: My initial reaction to the news of OEPs was that TOCs had been forced to accept Oyster and were determined to sabotage it by making it unusable. *That opinion hasn't changed. *TfL's willingness to go along with it will end up killing off Oyster for TfL as well. *Perhaps that suits a political agenda. Care to speculate on what that political agenda might be? Whatever it is, it's probably out of date. I wonder if, given the lack of publicity and facilities, OEPs will be quietly abandoned (and not enforced) anyway for the sake of preserving the usability of Oyster. There may have been a time when sabotaging everything associated with the old regime seemed like a Good Idea, but it's now too expensive. Getting rid of some bendys is probably more than enough. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 13:11, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: JS wrote: I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. Just a reminder - OEPs were insisted on by the TOCs as part of the payg extension agreement. *Penalty fares / prosecutions will be issued / instigated by the TOCs and not TfL. So the interesting legal point - can a TOC legally enforce a penalty fare if it can be shown that the correct ticket was not available to passengers at the starting station? I suspect that a very high proportion of PFs are overturned when challenged (although most may not be challenged), and that this is mainly on technicalities, such as the display of warnings at interchanges and so on, making their issue generally invalid regardless of whether the punter is otherwise bang to rights. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
MIG wrote: In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." What happens at the joint stations like Stratford or Richmond? Is there a consistent rule or does the passenger have to know how the station has been designated? That statement above is probably wrong. It is a staff briefing note for TfL staff. The public instructions are different as I've just posted in a reply to MIG... Paul S |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 13:11, MIG wrote:
....I wonder if, given the lack of publicity and facilities, OEPs will be quietly abandoned (and not enforced) anyway for the sake of preserving the usability of Oyster....... We can live in hope.... |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:20:19 -0800 (PST), Daniel wrote:
It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs? Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two (or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket could see some non-optimal charges as well. Yes, I think that could happen. For example, the holder of a Z23 Travelcard wishes to travel from Finsbury Park (Z2) to Thornton Heath (Z4), changing at Moorgate (Z1) and Balham (Z2). An OEP is needed from the start of the journey, due to starting at a LU station and travelling out-of-zone on FCC. However, this OEP is removed by the touch-out at Balham (LU) (due to having travelled out-of-zone), so a second OEP needs to be added in order to avoid a PF when travelling out-of-zone (again...) to Thornton Heath on Southern. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 04:53:52 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote: My initial reaction to the news of OEPs was that TOCs had been forced to accept Oyster and were determined to sabotage it by making it unusable. That opinion hasn't changed. TfL's willingness to go along with it will end up killing off Oyster for TfL as well. Perhaps that suits a political agenda. Care to speculate on what that political agenda might be? There's no need to speculate any further than 'Boris gets a tick in the box marked 'manifesto commitments' and damn the details'. It's not that the Oyster-on-NR rollout is a bad thing, quite the opposite, it's just got all the hallmarks of having more regard for public image than public transport, which is why it doesn't take very long to discover the bits that haven't been thought through from the point of view of usability. Mind you, that's essential Boris from top to toe. Tom |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 12:38, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote: On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote: .... In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement. "An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity." Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P.... It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text - Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only briefing their own staff not National Rail. What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont need an OEP. I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !! If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs' expenses. It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming worse than Ryanair on this.) I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations. But there's still that concept of "journey" that isn't defined. *I am still grappling. Let's say I live near Stratford and have a zone 1 - 3 season ticket and want to go to Hadley Wood (zone 6). Wherever I get on, if it's the weekend and I change at Kings Cross, then presumably, even if I think my journey started at Stratford, the journey that counts for the gripper starts at Kings Cross NR and doesn't need an OEP, or does it? During the week, if I start at Stratford and go via Moorgate (no touching on the way) I should have an OEP because I start at an LU station. But if I touch in at Maryland (NR) and go via Stratford and Moorgate (no touching) I don't need an OEP?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yes you will need an OEP. The confusion is coming because someone is quoting from a TFL document for TFL staff which will be correct for them. It still applies that you will need an OEP if your journey starts on National Rail in the zones and ends on National Rail outside the zones. The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On Jan 3, 12:51*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: wrote: If you register the Gold Card on your Oyster Card you do get a railcard discount on the extension fare, surely? You cannot register Gold Cards or Network Cards onto Oyster cards And this, to my mind, is the biggest fudge of the whole lot. The whole point of the Gold Card is that it recognises the loyalty of those who put up ~2 grand in advance, and the Oyster card must 'know' it holds an annual season. How hard would it be for said annual season to trigger an automatic 'Railcard' flag, thus allowing Gold Card holders the same reduced cap as (e.g.) YP card holders? I still can't quite believe that annual season holders actually come out of the great Oyster revolution *worse* than any other TfL users. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote:
The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster validators - and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no. How on earth does Oyster know how much to deduct from your PAYG if it doesn't know in which zone you travelled to? It deducts £1.50 as you touch in (with an OEP loaded), but it may well need to deduct additional funds (if you have a Z12 Travelcard and go to zone 6, for example) - but unless you touch out, Oyster won't know how much to take in total. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes So the interesting legal point - can a TOC legally enforce a penalty fare if it can be shown that the correct ticket was not available to passengers at the starting station? Probably not (or at least the PF can be appealed against). The DfT make the situation clear he http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legis...policya?page=7 But with OEPs rapidly becoming available on automatic ticket machines across London, it would probably be necessary to establish that the ticket machine was broken and there was no other one available nearby. Of course, if the ticket office staff are asked for an OEP and they claim never to have heard of such a thing - even to the extent of saying "you'll have to use the machine over there", I think one might enjoy a very successful appeal. -- Paul Terry |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Chris wrote:
On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote: The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster validators - and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no. ISTM you've missed the very point of the previous post. He explained exactly why OEPs are needed. At unbarriered stations there is nothing whatsoever to stop a passenger who entered elsewhere with a season travelcard ignoring a validator. The TOCs aren't prepared to take that obvious revenue risk - but TfL do already, and are prepared to accept it. Paul S |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:42:50 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote: So you put an OEP on and don't use it. Then a few days later you go from Euston to Tring with a paper extension to your zones and the train leaves from platform 8, so you touch at a barrier with your travelcard. Presumably your lurking OEP would then clobber you for not touching out at Tring? Which is really bloody silly. The solution to all this is to remove all situations (other than equipment failure) where you'd legitimately touch in using an Oyster and not touch out. This would be done by changing paper BZ extensions such that they are valid for any journey from inside the Zones the Travelcard is valid for to the specified destination, but are shown as only valid when carrying the specific numbered Oyster card shown (and checked) at purchase (to prevent double-use). An option not to deduct the "entry charge" on NR when using a Travelcard could then be offered. This would be done by not putting any PAYG balance on the card at all. At that point, you'd be liable for a PF if travelling outside your Zones for any reason using that card. So they would be marked as something like:- == STD OFF PEAK SINGLE From: LONDN ZONES 1-3 To: TRING Valid: Only with Oyster #12345678 == ....and would open any barrier in London zones 1-3, but if an inspector came around to check then a PF would be due if the appropriate Oyster was not being carried (not touched in). Thus there would be no need to touch in at all, and the problem would go away. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 17:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Chris wrote: On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote: The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster validators - and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no. ISTM you've missed the very point of the previous post. He explained exactly why OEPs are needed. At unbarriered stations there is nothing whatsoever to stop a passenger who entered elsewhere with a season travelcard ignoring a validator. *The TOCs aren't prepared to take that obvious revenue risk - but TfL do already, and are prepared to accept it. Paul S But ISTR that the only ungated stations on the underground are Mill Hill East (because they don't fit) and Roding Valley (because the number of passengers doesn't justify it). If TfL want to leave barriers open somewhere to save on staff costs and then be subject to revenue risk, that's a different matter. I appreciate that there are now plenty of LO stations wthout barriers and various 'open' interfaces with National Rail but the number is small relative to the number of NR stations that are ungated. Jonathan |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
In message
, MIG writes My initial reaction to the news of OEPs was that TOCs had been forced to accept Oyster and were determined to sabotage it by making it unusable. That opinion hasn't changed. While I agree that OEPs currently seem a total mess, I don't think that will do anything to sabotage Oyster. When OEPs were first announced it was said that the percentage of journeys likely to need an OEP was incredibly small. That's no excuse for making the procedure difficult, of course, but it is not necessarily an Oyster-stopping issue. -- Paul Terry |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
On 3 Jan, 17:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Chris wrote: On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote: The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no one there you can just walk off the station with out paying (Touching out) Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster validators - and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no. ISTM you've missed the very point of the previous post. He explained exactly why OEPs are needed. At unbarriered stations there is nothing whatsoever to stop a passenger who entered elsewhere with a season travelcard ignoring a validator. *The TOCs aren't prepared to take that obvious revenue risk - but TfL do already, and are prepared to accept it. Paul S There's no difference surely between that situation and someone with a paper travelcard exiting outside their zones, surely? Actually, there is a difference - with a paper ticket the passenger will (likely) know they're outside their zones and should be paying something extra, somehow. A passenger with both a travelcard and PAYG credit on their Oyster card is likely to think they'll have some credit deducted when they leave and not have any idea what an OEP is. (I know this has been done before, but it's still crazy) |
Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs)
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , MIG writes My initial reaction to the news of OEPs was that TOCs had been forced to accept Oyster and were determined to sabotage it by making it unusable. That opinion hasn't changed. While I agree that OEPs currently seem a total mess, I don't think that will do anything to sabotage Oyster. When OEPs were first announced it was said that the percentage of journeys likely to need an OEP was incredibly small. That's no excuse for making the procedure difficult, of course, but it is not necessarily an Oyster-stopping issue. I suspect as franchises are renewed (as seen with SN recently), DfT will work towards having all stations in the zonal area fitted with barriers, at which time OEPs will become redundant? Paul |
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