"AndyA" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
om...
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
But of course free market forces only work if people are charged for
the
services (ie roads) that they use.

But, of course, free market forces only work if there's competition,
not a gang of armed thugs charging motorists an arm and a leg to drive
while stealing large chunks of the roads for their cronies in the bus
industry.

Hmm, I've been driving for 20 years and in all that time I've never
been accosted by a gang of armed thugs trying to charge me money.
Maybe you just live in a rough area, especially if they are trying to
steal the roads as well. Still, people will nick anything nowadays.

I agree with you, though: all roads should be privatised and all
motoring taxes should be abolished. Let private companies run the
roads instead.

And they will of course let you drive on their roads for nothing.

--
AndyA



Mark





Well if we had a private company running the roads using all the revenue
from road road users, we would have much better roads than now, as they
would put a far higher proportion back into the road network.

Mikael

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:43:32 -0000, "Mikael Armstrong"
wrote:
Well if we had a private company running the roads using all the revenue
from road road users, we would have much better roads than now, as they
would put a far higher proportion back into the road network.
If all the goods that are carried up and down the country in multi
wheel juggernauts every day of the week where shifted on to the rail
network our road network would stay in good shape for a lot longer.
I am sure that at least 50% of the goods that travel along the M1 and
M6 every day could quite easly be shunted onto the west coast line.
Grant .

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:43:32 -0000, "Mikael Armstrong"
wrote:


Well if we had a private company running the roads using all the revenue
from road road users, we would have much better roads than now, as they
would put a far higher proportion back into the road network.

Mikael


Do you have any evidence to support the notion that a private company
would do this? Surely the idea is to spend the minimum on maintenance
etc to maximise profits (hence why the company running BNRR will
charge HGVs £11 each way).
--

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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:38:15 -0000, "Martin²"
wrote:

How prey, do they propose to enforce the use of satellite and / or cellular
phone tracker systems for cars ?

They're trialling it with HGVs. Cars next, no doubt:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ht_503872.hcsp

This is a madly expensive way to TRY to solve congestion in relatively small
number of places.
And, as with petrol, people will just pay what it takes to go where they
want to go and when they want to go.

Yes, but I suppose the rationale is that eventually you reach a point
where it becomes cheaper to use another mode. I know that surveys
suggest around 30% of motorists state that they will never switch
modes but that leaves 70% who might consider it..... Mind you - even
if they charged 50p/mile on the M6 it would still be cheaper than
Virgin on peak trains

Congestion is self defeating anyway, so unless you build more roads, you may
as well do nothing !
It would be much better to concentrate of keeping the traffic moving, sort
of stand Livingstone on his stupid head....
Regards,
Martin

Eh? Within the charging zone congestion has been reduced. I appreciate
that on the boundaries it has stayed the same (or perhaps increased)
but if (for example) there was a national charging scheme there
wouldn't be such precipices.

--

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In article ,
says...
How prey, do they propose to enforce the use of satellite and / or cellular
phone tracker systems for cars ?

Exactly the same way they forced speedlimiters on HGVs. Make it law.


--
Conor

Hi. This is my friend, Jack ****, and you don't know him.

Robin May wrote:
"Richard J." wrote the following in:


Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article

d.ntl.c om, Dan Holdsworth writes

[1] Doing it this way, you could also look for mobile phones
that appear to be in use and moving along a motorway, and flag
these locations up to the local police, for much improved
enforcement of anti-mobile laws.

There is no law against the use of a mobile phone while moving on
a motorway.

Yes, there is. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
(Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003. It doesn't come into effect
until 1 Dec 2003, and it only affects the use of a hand-held
mobile by the driver.

That's not a law against use of a mobile phone while moving on a
motorway. That's a law against the use of a mobile phone while
driving.

Yes, but driving is one way of moving. By your logic, I could say "There
is no law against parking on a single yellow line" because you would claim
that parking wasn't banned for 24 hrs/day.

What I assume you meant was that the system
would not be able to distinguish between legal and illegal use of
a mobile mobile, not that all use was legal.

He didn't say all use was legal.

He said there was no law against it, which amounts to the same thing.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Grant Crozier wrote in message ws.com...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:43:32 -0000, "Mikael Armstrong"
wrote:
Well if we had a private company running the roads using all the revenue
from road road users, we would have much better roads than now, as they
would put a far higher proportion back into the road network.
If all the goods that are carried up and down the country in multi
wheel juggernauts every day of the week where shifted on to the rail
network our road network would stay in good shape for a lot longer.
I am sure that at least 50% of the goods that travel along the M1 and
M6 every day could quite easly be shunted onto the west coast line.
Grant .

I think you'll find there is not enough capacity on the WCML to add
anything like 50% of the road frieght.

"Richard J." wrote the following in:


Robin May wrote:
"Richard J." wrote the following in:

Yes, there is. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
(Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003. It doesn't come into
effect until 1 Dec 2003, and it only affects the use of a
hand-held mobile by the driver.

That's not a law against use of a mobile phone while moving on a
motorway. That's a law against the use of a mobile phone while
driving.

Yes, but driving is one way of moving. By your logic, I could say
"There is no law against parking on a single yellow line" because
you would claim that parking wasn't banned for 24 hrs/day.

No, driving is the act of being in control of a car. There is no law
against using a mobile phone while moving in a car, there is a law
against using a mobile phone while in control of a car. The yellow line
example doesn't hold up because there is a law against parking on
single yellow lines.

I suppose the point is, you can't just send the police after every
mobile phone in use that's moving on a motorway. You'd have thousands
of completely innocent drivers and passengers inconvenienced and
countless hours of police time wasted.

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Then and than are different words!

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message ...
"Matt Bourke" wrote in message
om...
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
...
But of course free market forces only work if people are charged for the
services (ie roads) that they use. Currently roads are free(1)

(1) So you may argue about fuel duty etc.etc. but this is unbelievably
crude
in terms of road pricing as to be ignored.
...

Here here! Let's price the riff-raff in their mass-market hatchbacks
and super-minis off the roads. Let them use buses. Give the roads
back to the wealthy!

Yes that is a problem. Perhaps the tax you pay could be based on as a
percentage determined by your car's value and CO2 output, rather like with
company car tax. That would eliminate the regressive nature of the tax.

Even based on value and CO2 it discriminates against the poor. The
wealthy will not be affected. If road rationing is required do it
fairly - give each person an annual mileage quota.

Matt B
--

Conor
Exactly the same way they forced speedlimiters on HGVs. Make it law.

Law against a burnt fuse supplying power to the sat / gps tracker ?
Regards,
Martin