"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
08:41:28 on Sun, 10 Jan 2010, MIG remarked:
I suppose that if you ended up on 3 or 4 having terminated from the
Kensington direction, you could always catch the next Hammersmith train
and reverse at Paddington (island platform iirc).

If you start going that far,

It's only one stop - and if I had a couple of big suitcases it would be
well worth it.

there are step-free changes on all routes as long as every line has at
least one step-free change to another and enough of them have two. This is
probably the case.

So, problem solved (at least by the usual definition here) and anyone
who finds it inconvenient is an idiot who ought to live somewhere else.

That's "extreme stepless", which has a place, but not in this thread.
--
Roland Perry

That's fine, you know the system. Consider a tourist who has never used
the Underground before who has arrived at St Pancras (E*) and is going to an
hotel in Notting Hill or Kensington.

On 10 Jan, 17:37, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 08:41:28 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
If you start going that far, there are step-free changes on all routes
as long as every line has at least one step-free change to another and
enough of them have two. *This is probably the case.

So, problem solved (at least by the usual definition here) and anyone
who finds it inconvenient is an idiot who ought to live somewhere else.

That's a bit extreme. *The Circle Line had a problem of atrocious
punctuality, day in day out. *This is an attempt to solve it.

I was referring to the general attitude of the group whenever anyone
faces new inconvenience. A bit throwaway, I admit.


What, OOI, would be your suggestion to prevent the situation that
occurred before, e.g. half hour gaps in service followed by 4 trains
together? *People wouldn't like trains sitting at Aldgate for 20
minutes' recovery time (the only other place where it would really
make sense to hold them as they're completely out of the way there).


There have been long threads about it where ideas, including mine,
have been suggested.

Basically, I don't necessarily accept the need for increased frequency
on the Hammersmith branch.

I think I suggested

*running the teacup as now, from Hammersmith to Edgware Road

*extending the Wimbleware to Barking

*if really necessary, run Hammersmith to Edgware Road shuttle and busy
shopping times

That would leave nearly all frequencies intact and provide all the
interchange opportunities needed.

Hammersmith to Whitechapel or beyond is better provided by the
District anyway.

Graham Harrison wrote on 10
January 2010 21:07:37 ...

That's fine, you know the system. Consider a tourist who has never used
the Underground before who has arrived at St Pancras (E*) and is going to an
hotel in Notting Hill or Kensington.

If he's completely ignorant about London, he'll look at the map and see
that a change at Edgware Road is needed. No problem.

If he's a bit more clued up, he might have heard of the Journey Planner,
so he uses it before leaving home and it says
"King's Cross St.Pancras Underground Station
Take the Circle Line towards Victoria
or Hammersmith & City Line towards Baker Street"
[to Edgware Road]

Hey, wait a minute! The Circle Line doesn't go to Victoria in that
direction! In any case, "via Victoria" is a pretty ambiguous indication
of direction at KXSP.

It's even worse at Edgware Road. There, the hapless tourist is
instructed to change to the "Circle Line via Liverpool Street or
District Line towards Wimbledon Underground Station". So if there's no
Wimbledon train in platform 3, he's likely to go to the other island
platform and ask advice about which Circle Line train goes towards
Liverpool Street ...

Oh, dear. Email to TfL coming up.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message , at 21:07:37 on
Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Graham Harrison
remarked:
That's fine, you know the system. Consider a tourist who has never
used the Underground before who has arrived at St Pancras (E*) and is
going to an hotel in Notting Hill or Kensington.

Hints and tips like we are exchanging will rarely percolate down to
tourists. Nor will they necessarily be expecting step-free travel - the
Paris Metro is about as stepFULL as it's possible to be, and then some;
for example. And there's something about its layout that seems to
require at least one change for most journeys I want to do.
--
Roland Perry

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 10 Jan, 14:41, "Richard J." wrote:
Roland Perry wrote on 10 January 2010
14:15:24 ...

In message , at
06:29:39 on Sun, 10 Jan 2010,
remarked:
However, you have now gained the possibility of doing the same
journey, step-free, using the Piccadilly Line.
Not if the reason for wanting it step free is because I have my
bicycle with me!
Won't it fit in the lift? (Although to some extent this simply
demonstrates that using a bike on public transport simply doesn't
scale)

Unfolded bikes aren't allowed on tunnelled sections of the deep tube
lines. *I believe this is because they would impede an evacuation from
a train stuck in a tunnel.

The leaflet on the "new extended Circle line" says, regarding changing
at Edgware Road, "you can avoid the footbridge as cross-platform
interchange is available in both directions: eastbound ... between
platform 2 (Circle line) and platform 1; westbound ... between
platform 4 and platform 3 (District line)." *That sounds to me like
an assured step-free route.

There is never a way of assuring that a train won't be signalled into
platform 3 at the last minute.

Anyway, if it really is running well, I may have to be true to my word
and eat my dinner.

However, there haven't exactly been any normal weeks since the service
was introduced, so let's wait and see.

I've seen the promise but not the reality yet. We shall see.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 10 Jan, 16:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
14:41:32 on Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Richard J.
remarked:

Unfolded bikes aren't allowed on tunnelled sections of the deep tube
lines. *I believe this is because they would impede an evacuation
from a train stuck in a tunnel.

Fair enough.

The leaflet on the "new extended Circle line" says, regarding
changing at Edgware Road, "you can avoid the footbridge as
cross-platform interchange is available in both directions:
eastbound ... between platform 2 (Circle line) and platform 1;
westbound ... between platform 4 and platform 3 (District line)." *
That sounds to me like an assured step-free route.

I suppose that if you ended up on 3 or 4 having terminated from the
Kensington direction, you could always catch the next Hammersmith
train and reverse at Paddington (island platform iirc).

If you start going that far, there are step-free changes on all routes
as long as every line has at least one step-free change to another and
enough of them have two. This is probably the case.

So, problem solved (at least by the usual definition here) and anyone
who finds it inconvenient is an idiot who ought to live somewhere else.

A simpler solution would be to run a through Circle service at Edgware
Road as was done for over 100 years.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 05:58:17PM -0600, wrote:
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:
wrote in message
...
I've not had cause to try it. I noticed one report claiming
cross-platform interchange for "round the corner" passengers. That
must be a lie of course.
I just knew you would be first 'anti' to speak up. Give it a rest FFS...
Why? I and anyone making a similar journey have lost any assurance of a
step-free route between King's Cross and Earl's Court

Apart from the Piccadilly line, of course.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Guns aren't the problem. People who deserve to die are the problem.

In article i,
Tom Anderson wrote:
Transfer the Hammersmith branch to Crossrail.

Crossrail platforms are 240m long, IIRC. C-Stock trains are 6 car
and are - what, 90m long or so? I'm not sure how expensive it would
be to doble the length of all the stations en-route, but my gut
feel is "lots".


Failing that, turn it into a
GW branch that terminates at Paddington.

Which would remove a lot of the utility of the line.

You will still need recovery waits at Aldgate, but they should be smaller
without the delays emanating from Praed Street.

True.

--
Please help Imogen May keep talking - www.imogenmay.com

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 05:58:17PM -0600,
wrote:
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:
wrote in message
...
I've not had cause to try it. I noticed one report claiming
cross-platform interchange for "round the corner" passengers. That
must be a lie of course.
I just knew you would be first 'anti' to speak up. Give it a rest
FFS...
Why? I and anyone making a similar journey have lost any
assurance of a step-free route between King's Cross and Earl's
Court

Apart from the Piccadilly line, of course.

I must get someone to show me this supposed step-free route to the
Piccadilly Line at King's Cross. The current access to the Northern ticket
hall from King's Cross main line is not step-free. The only lift from
ground level only goes relevantly to the old tube concourse which does not
have step-free access to the Piccadilly Line. Anyway, that line is no use
with a bike and the accesses involve some lengthy detours, especially at
Earl's Court.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:47:27 -0600,
wrote:

A simpler solution would be to run a through Circle service at Edgware
Road as was done for over 100 years.

Which didn't work for over 100 years. There is a very good reason why
Circle Line trains are regarded by some as a myth.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.