Earlier today I did some PAYG experiments. In this post, 'travelling' is
defined as time spent in the 'paid' side of station facilities as well
as the train/tube.

I travelled from Liverpool Street 'NR' to Romford, then 23 minutes later
I travelled back. I wanted to see if I would be charged for two short
journeys or one longer journey, in this case it was the former that
happened (in reality I hit a cap by then but the findings remain valid).

After leaving a bus at Bromley South, I travelled direct to Victoria
'TOCs', spent just over 10 minutes in the concourse then travelled to
Waterloo 'NR 1 - 11' via Clapham Junction. On this occasion, it was
defined as one journey.

Less than 5 minutes later I travelled to Vauxhall 'SWT' then (again
within 5 minutes) took the Victoria line to its station namesake. I
expected my latest originating station would still be Bromley South but
it was now the aforementioned Waterloo variant.

Make of the above what you will, but my main question is this:

If ~5 minutes was seemingly enough for the system to end the ex-Bromley
South journey at Waterloo, why was ~10 minutes not enough to end the
same journey earlier at Victoria?

[N.B. I've noticed the Waterloo ITSO-ready gateline has been converted
to a 'standard' Oyster-ready gateline.]

On 12 Jan, 22:26, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:07:46 +0000, Sky Rider
wrote:





Earlier today I did some PAYG experiments. In this post, 'travelling' is
defined as time spent in the 'paid' side of station facilities as well
as the train/tube.

I travelled from Liverpool Street 'NR' to Romford, then 23 minutes later
I travelled back. I wanted to see if I would be charged for two short
journeys or one longer journey, in this case it was the former that
happened (in reality I hit a cap by then but the findings remain valid).

After leaving a bus at Bromley South, I travelled direct to Victoria
'TOCs', spent just over 10 minutes in the concourse then travelled to
Waterloo 'NR 1 - 11' via Clapham Junction. On this occasion, it was
defined as one journey.

Less than 5 minutes later I travelled to Vauxhall 'SWT' then (again
within 5 minutes) took the Victoria line to its station namesake. I
expected my latest originating station would still be Bromley South but
it was now the aforementioned Waterloo variant.

Make of the above what you will, but my main question is this:

If ~5 minutes was seemingly enough for the system to end the ex-Bromley
South journey at Waterloo, why was ~10 minutes not enough to end the
same journey earlier at Victoria?

Put simply the two halves of Victoria NR are different sides of the OSI.
There are logical journeys that can be made by interchanging between the
South Eastern and South Central parts of the station and 10 minutes is
within the interchange time.

Waterloo Main Line is just one side of the multi sided Waterloo OSI. You
re-entered at the same side so therefore a new journey commenced.

Easy really.

I confess I do not understand the issue at Liverpool Street even though
it has different sides to the NR aspect of the station. *I assume you
exited and re-entered on the Great Eastern side of the station?

The 23 minutes was at Romford I assume, from the original message?

Not that that explains it any better.

What is the setup at Romford? Is there an Oystered barrier or some
kind of standalone thing? I am just wondering if it's programmed to
assume a continuing journey that could be via Upminster or something.

On Jan 12, 10:33*pm, MIG wrote:

The 23 minutes was at Romford I assume, from the original message?

Yes indeed.

What is the setup at Romford? *Is there an Oystered barrier or some
kind of standalone thing? *I am just wondering if it's programmed to
assume a continuing journey that could be via Upminster or something.

There are two gatelines, the latest Cubic variant I believe - one near
the ticket office and another near the ticket machines.

On Jan 12, 10:26*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

Put simply the two halves of Victoria NR are different sides of the OSI.
There are logical journeys that can be made by interchanging between the
South Eastern and South Central parts of the station and 10 minutes is
within the interchange time.

Waterloo Main Line is just one side of the multi sided Waterloo OSI. You
re-entered at the same side so therefore a new journey commenced.

Easy really.

Cheers. I didn't know the Victoria NR gateline was part of an OSI.

On Jan 12, 10:59*pm, Sky Rider wrote:

I didn't know the Victoria NR gateline was part of an OSI.

Or rather that the two halves are an OSI in their own right. (I
already know the NR-LU connection there is an OSI.)

[N.B. I've noticed the Waterloo ITSO-ready gateline has been converted
to a 'standard' Oyster-ready gateline.]

What makes you think they were ever "ITSO-ready"?

J

In message
,
"John Elliott (chyp.com)" writes

[N.B. I've noticed the Waterloo ITSO-ready gateline has been converted
to a 'standard' Oyster-ready gateline.]

What makes you think they were ever "ITSO-ready"?

The transport commissioner's report of last July said that "The DfT is
also in discussions with Stagecoach South West Trains Limited to permit
it to turn off the interim ITSO facility at the Waterloo ticket gate
line which is currently incompatible with Oyster PAYG."

To what extent an "interim" facility was actually ITSO-ready is another
matter, though!
--
Paul Terry

On Jan 12, 10:51*pm, Sky Rider wrote:
On Jan 12, 10:33*pm, MIG wrote:

The 23 minutes was at Romford I assume, from the original message?

Yes indeed.

Ah sorry - didn't read your message clearly enough. Well I'm not sure
what you expected might happen but Liv St - Romford and then Romford -
Liv St should be charged as two independent journeys on the NR scale
for Z1-6. Sounds like this is what happened.

What is the setup at Romford? *Is there an Oystered barrier or some
kind of standalone thing? *I am just wondering if it's programmed to
assume a continuing journey that could be via Upminster or something.

Interchange to the Upminster service is within the gateline area so no
need for an OSI facility.

There are two gatelines, the latest Cubic variant I believe - one near
the ticket office and another near the ticket machines.

Ah the old glass slidey things (from Ascom?) have gone then.

--
Paul C
via Google

On 13 Jan, 12:46, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Jan 12, 10:51*pm, Sky Rider wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:33*pm, MIG wrote:

The 23 minutes was at Romford I assume, from the original message?

Yes indeed.

Ah sorry - didn't read your message clearly enough. Well I'm not sure
what you expected might happen but Liv St - Romford and then Romford -
Liv St should be charged as two independent journeys on the NR scale
for Z1-6. *Sounds like this is what happened.

Yes, it was me misreading that time. I thought he was saying it was
one journey.

On 13 Jan, 10:40, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
"John Elliott (chyp.com)" writes



[N.B. I've noticed the Waterloo ITSO-ready gateline has been converted
to a 'standard' Oyster-ready gateline.]

What makes you think they were ever "ITSO-ready"?

The transport commissioner's report of last July said that "The DfT is
also in discussions with Stagecoach South West Trains Limited to permit
it to turn off the interim ITSO facility at the Waterloo ticket gate
line which is currently incompatible with Oyster PAYG."

To what extent an "interim" facility was actually ITSO-ready is another
matter, though!
--
Paul Terry

Cheers