On Jan 15, 12:17*am, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

The EMT gateline at St Pancras International has also been upgraded to
Oyster (presumably for Thameslink diversions.)

I've seen the gateline today, and the displays bear the message
'OYSTER / TICKETS'. However, the yellow pads bear the 'card in hand'
ITSO symbol formerly seen on the Waterloo gateline and not the Oyster
symbol. I don't know if EMT are conducting an ITSO smartcard trial,
but some of their ticket machines at StP have rectangular black pads
on them.

Speaking of Oyster, the Southeastern ticket machines there have the
bulky yellow pads (and they're operational) even though you can't use
it on their high speed services.

On Jan 15, 12:52*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On Jan 15, 12:16*pm, Andy wrote:





On 15 Jan, 10:11, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 15, 8:10*am, Andy wrote:

On Jan 15, 1:32*am, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 15, 12:52 am, Andy wrote:

[big snip]

Oyster validators were put on the exit from platform 16-18, soon after
LM started to accept Oyster, but several services (both peak and non-
peak) used at least platforms 1-3, 7 and 12 regularly with Oyster PAYG
users, from Watford, Bushey and Harrow having to walk to the platform
11 gate line to touch out.

Before that (i.e. in Silverlink days) there was however a single
Oyster validator next to a girder near the ramp leading up from
platforms 16-18 - this wasn't exactly obvious, but then it was only
for the sole use of pax heading to or from Harrow & Wealdstone -
though Silverlink certainly didn't make any effort to draw any
attention to the fact that Oyster PAYG was in fact valid on the fast
trains twixt Euston and H&W.

Thanks, I'd forgotten that one, which was a few years older. There are
now also two at either side of the ramp leading up to the concourse
which were a later addition. They pre-date the ones on the other
platforms by quite a long time though.

I think they date from sometime shortly after when London Midland
relented and decided to allow PAYG on their fast trains from Watford
Jn to Euston (after London Overground's acceptance of PAYG on the DC
lines all the way to Watford Jn more or less forced their hand!).

Isn't that what I said in the first place I'd just forgotten the
older one by the pillar.

Yes it was, sorry!

(Though of course LM accepted Oyster PAYG right from the very start
between Euston and H&W, just as Silverlink had done before them... the
big change was of course acceptance from Watford Jn. Were LM simply
naive in not arranging to accept it from the get-go, or was it a
negotiating position and they were simply trying to call TfL's bluff,
in the hope of securing a better deal?)

I'd go with LM being 'surprised' by the extension of PAYG to Watford
Junction, after all, Southern accepted it from day 1. Of course Govia
already ran Southern, but took over LM on the same day as the PAYG was
extended to Watford Junction and I imagine that the local management
had other things to think about for the first few weeks. DfT probably
didn't even think there would be a problem

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:11:05 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

I think they date from sometime shortly after when London Midland
relented and decided to allow PAYG on their fast trains from Watford
Jn to Euston (after London Overground's acceptance of PAYG on the DC
lines all the way to Watford Jn more or less forced their hand!).

The same day the overcrowding on certain problem trains got worse.
Shouldn't have been done until the next timetable change so that train
lengths could have been shuffled around to cope.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jan 16, 10:46*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:11:05 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:
I think they date from sometime shortly after when London Midland
relented and decided to allow PAYG on their fast trains from Watford
Jn to Euston (after London Overground's acceptance of PAYG on the DC
lines all the way to Watford Jn more or less forced their hand!).

The same day the overcrowding on certain problem trains got worse.
Shouldn't have been done until the next timetable change so that train
lengths could have been shuffled around to cope.

The other way of looking at it is that it might never have happened if
TfL had just waited instead of taking the initiative.

On Jan 16, 10:46*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:11:05 -0800 (PST), Mizter T

wrote:
I think they date from sometime shortly after when London Midland
relented and decided to allow PAYG on their fast trains from Watford
Jn to Euston (after London Overground's acceptance of PAYG on the DC
lines all the way to Watford Jn more or less forced their hand!).

The same day the overcrowding on certain problem trains got worse.
Shouldn't have been done until the next timetable change so that train
lengths could have been shuffled around to cope.


I can't say I noticed a big increase in overcrowding for the few weeks
before the timetable change. They didn't exactly widely advertise the
fact that they were now accepting Oyster from Euston to Watford
Junction and Bushey (Harrow already being valid). I doubt that extra
PAYG passenger were the reason behind lengthening trains.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:44:10 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I can't say I noticed a big increase in overcrowding for the few weeks
before the timetable change.

There was a noticeable step-change in the overcrowding of the 1824...

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:46:22 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

I think they date from sometime shortly after when London Midland
relented and decided to allow PAYG on their fast trains from Watford
Jn to Euston (after London Overground's acceptance of PAYG on the DC
lines all the way to Watford Jn more or less forced their hand!).

The same day the overcrowding on certain problem trains got worse.
Shouldn't have been done until the next timetable change so that train
lengths could have been shuffled around to cope.

If they hadn't done it before the timetable change (allowing them to
assess demand), how would they have known how long to make the trains
at the timetable change?

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:07:20 +0000, asdf
wrote:

If they hadn't done it before the timetable change (allowing them to
assess demand), how would they have known how long to make the trains
at the timetable change?

Fair point.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jan 16, 11:47*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:44:10 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I can't say I noticed a big increase in overcrowding for the few weeks
before the timetable change.

There was a noticeable step-change in the overcrowding of the 1824...


But the overcrowding on the 1824 didn't get sorted out until December
2009 I must say I didn't notice it getting particularly worse than
before, but it wasn't one of my regular evening trains. It doesn't
take many extra passengers for a LM service to go from comfortable
standing room to nasty overcrowding. At the time we were talking about
(November - December 2007) the normal pre-Christmas busy period was
just getting started. I generally find this is the busiest time of
year on the slightly later evening peak trains from Euston.

On Jan 16, 8:30*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jan 16, 11:47*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:44:10 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I can't say I noticed a big increase in overcrowding for the few weeks
before the timetable change.

There was a noticeable step-change in the overcrowding of the 1824...

But the overcrowding on the 1824 didn't get sorted out until December
2009 I must say I didn't notice it getting particularly worse than
before, but it wasn't one of my regular evening trains. It doesn't
take many extra passengers for a LM service to go from comfortable
standing room to nasty overcrowding. At the time we were talking about
(November - December 2007) the normal pre-Christmas busy period was
just getting started. I generally find this is the busiest time of
year on the slightly later evening peak trains from Euston.

Speaking of overcrowding...

I did wonder when the new trains started turning up why they didn't
just admit there was a problem and stick hand straps along the ceiling
of the trains...it wouldn't have cost much and would make them much
easier to use when overcrowded. As it is, a lot of the time,
especially in the vestibules, if you're not flat against the doors or
the dividers you can't reach the grab bars, and are forced to steady
yourself as best you can without getting too 'friendly' with those
around you when you get bumped around (I'm looking at you track around
Wembley/Willesden).