On 19 Jan, 18:15, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:57:15 -0800 (PST), JS wrote:
the only time it [theoysterpayg balance] will not be correct is
if you have made bus journeys that day and the bus has not returned to
depot (data needs to be uploaded from bus machine)

How is the uploading done?

Here (Kristiansand) we use ticket machines that are always online via GPRS.

Are iBus and the ticket system completely separate?

--
jhk

Yes, iBus and the ticket system are separate

"John Salmon" wrote
"Paul Corfield" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote:
"John Salmon" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote
I've only recently started using Oyster PAYG on a semi-regular basis.
I
topped up on Tuesday using the FCC ticket machine next to the ticket
office at St Pancras International. I have a couple of queries:

(1) The top-up location on my journey history is shown as "Bus". Why
would that be?

(2) I noticed that the machine showed that the Oyster card was loaded
with a Zones 1-4 Weekly Travelcard for a specific week in 2007, and it
offered me the option of renewing it. I have never had any Travelcard
loaded on the Oyster card, indeed I've never used any kind of Weekly
Travelcard. I did wonder whether this situation is in some way
related
to the fact that this particular card was one I obtained by post (to
Retford) during the short period that 'free' (i.e. without £3 deposit)
cards were on offer. I can't remember when that was - perhaps 2007? I
think that at that time only cards with a Travelcard loaded were
normally
issued free, so did TfL load an 'expired' Travelcard on all those free
Oyster cards?

Sorry, one more query:

(3) I haven't topped up my card since Tuesday. The journey history is
up-to-date to Wednesday and shows my current balance as £3.91, but the
previous page ('Card Overview') shows the balance as £11.21, a figure
that
doesn't appear anywhere in the journey history. Can anyone suggest an
explanation?

[now cross-posted to uk.railway]

OK, a day and a half has passed, and not a single reply. This could mean
(a) I've written complete rubbish so you're all ignoring me or (b) you've
all killfiled me, or even (c) no-one on utl knows any of the answers. I
*really* find (c) very difficult to believe, as I thought this group
(utl)
was the fount of all knowledge on Oyster cards. Doesn't anyone have
anything to say?

I looked at your post and I do not understand why any of the outcomes
you have outlined could arise. That is why you have not had an answer -
I suspect people really do not know the answers.

If you have not already tried the Oyster Help Line then I suggest they
are your best port of call - they at least have access to the central
system and may be able to offer some explanation.

Thanks Paul. I'll try the Help Line, but I know from past experience that
I'll have to have plenty of time to spare. I'll report back in due course
if I learn anything of interest. I should add that I'm not in any way
anti-Oyster, but I do want to understand some of the apparently quirky
behaviour that I keep encountering.

I promised to report back...

I haven't yet followed up queries (1) and (2), but (3) has now partially
resolved itself - the 'Card Overview' balance and the journey history
balance are both now the same. However, I still don't know why the
difference was £7.30, but I do know (or at least think) that it's related to
an overcharge which has now been refunded (twice!). The first refund was
for £9.10 which it was agreed was to be credited to my bank account (I told
the helpline that I lived 140 miles away and couldn't be sure when I would
next be in London - I'd overlooked a planned trip last Saturday). It related
to a journey from London Bridge to Holborn; on touching out I was charged
£6.00 instead of being credited £3.10, I think because two separate journeys
had apparently been linked via London Bridge OSI (I had been hanging around
on the NR platforms looking at trains!) See journey history entries below.
The refund should really have been for a further £1.80 as I subsequently
reached the daily off-peak cap with my other journeys that day. I decided
not to bother about that £1.80, but that is where things took an unexpected
twist, which I didn't know about until this morning because I've been behind
with reading my emails and I hadn't until then re-checked my journey
history. Last Saturday I took a rail trip from Retford to Wool and back (to
traverse a rare crossover there). As I was using separate Advance tickets
for Retford-King's Cross and Waterloo-Wool, I needed to use Oyster PAYG to
travel across London. Unknown to me at the time, I had received an email
from TfL in the early hours of that very morning:

"Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of
£10.90. This is now ready for pick-up at Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc
Lines).
REFUND DETAILS
Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: £10.90"

The following day (Sunday) I got this:

"Your pay as you go refund for £10.90 has been successfully credited to your
Oyster card and can now be used for future journeys.
REFUND DETAILS
Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: £10.90
Pick-up location: Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc Lines)"

So I've now been over-refunded by £9.10, as this latter amount reached my
bank two days ago.

Arising out of this, I would caution railway enthusiasts using Oyster PAYG
whilst staying on the system to remember to keep touching out and back in
within the time limits, and perhaps to avoid doing it at OSI locations where
journeys might be incorrectly linked. Why isn't the system 'clever' enough
to know that the two journeys shown below are separate? Or is there some
other explanation for this 'operational issue'?

Further comments welcome!

The original entries that caused the problem:
16:44 Holborn Exit - £6.00 £-2.19
16:23 London Bridge [London Underground] Entry - £4.90 £3.81
16:21 London Bridge [National Rail] Exit £3.20 £8.71
15:12 Charing Cross [National Rail] Entry - £4.20 £5.51

On 21 Jan, 14:04, "John Salmon" wrote:
"John Salmon" wrote



"Paul Corfield" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote:
"John Salmon" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote
I've only recently started usingOysterPAYG on a semi-regular basis.
I
topped up on Tuesday using the FCC ticket machine next to the ticket
office at St Pancras International. I have a couple of queries:

(1) The top-up location on my journey history is shown as "Bus". Why
would that be?

(2) I noticed that the machine showed that theOystercard was loaded
with a Zones 1-4 Weekly Travelcard for a specific week in 2007, and it
offered me the option of renewing it. *I have never had any Travelcard
loaded on theOystercard, indeed I've never used any kind of Weekly
Travelcard. *I did wonder whether this situation is in some way
related
to the fact that this particular card was one I obtained by post (to
Retford) during the short period that 'free' (i.e. without 3 deposit)
cards were on offer. I can't remember when that was - perhaps 2007? *I
think that at that time only cards with a Travelcard loaded were
normally
issued free, so did TfL load an 'expired' Travelcard on all those free
Oystercards?

Sorry, one more query:

(3) I haven't topped up my card since Tuesday. *The journey history is
up-to-date to Wednesday and shows my current balance as 3.91, but the
previous page ('Card Overview') shows the balance as 11.21, a figure
that
doesn't appear anywhere in the journey history. *Can anyone suggest an
explanation?

[now cross-posted to uk.railway]

OK, a day and a half has passed, and not a single reply. *This could mean
(a) I've written complete rubbish so you're all ignoring me or (b) you've
all killfiled me, or even (c) no-one on utl knows any of the answers. *I
*really* find (c) very difficult to believe, as I thought this group
(utl)
was the fount of all knowledge onOystercards. *Doesn't anyone have
anything to say?

I looked at your post and I do not understand why any of the outcomes
you have outlined could arise. That is why you have not had an answer -
I suspect people really do not know the answers.

If you have not already tried theOysterHelp Line then I suggest they
are your best port of call - they at least have access to the central
system and may be able to offer some explanation.

Thanks Paul. I'll try the Help Line, but I know from past experience that
I'll have to have plenty of time to spare. *I'll report back in due course
if I learn anything of interest. *I should add that I'm not in any way
anti-Oyster, but I do want to understand some of the apparently quirky
behaviour that I keep encountering.

I promised to report back...

I haven't yet followed up queries (1) and (2), but (3) has now partially
resolved itself - the 'Card Overview' balance and the journey history
balance are both now the same. *However, I still don't know why the
difference was 7.30, but I do know (or at least think) that it's related to
an overcharge which has now been refunded (twice!). *The first refund was
for 9.10 which it was agreed was to be credited to my bank account (I told
the helpline that I lived 140 miles away and couldn't be sure when I would
next be in London - I'd overlooked a planned trip last Saturday). It related
to a journey from London Bridge to Holborn; on touching out I was charged
6.00 instead of being credited 3.10, I think because two separate journeys
had apparently been linked via London Bridge OSI (I had been hanging around
on the NR platforms looking at trains!) *See journey history entries below.
The refund should really have been for a further 1.80 as I subsequently
reached the daily off-peak cap with my other journeys that day. *I decided
not to bother about that 1.80, but that is where things took an unexpected
twist, which I didn't know about until this morning because I've been behind
with reading my emails and I hadn't until then re-checked my journey
history. *Last Saturday I took a rail trip from Retford to Wool and back (to
traverse a rare crossover there). *As I was using separate Advance tickets
for Retford-King's Cross and Waterloo-Wool, I needed to useOysterPAYG to
travel across London. *Unknown to me at the time, I had received an email
from TfL in the early hours of that very morning:

"Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of
10.90. This is now ready for pick-up at Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc
Lines).
REFUND DETAILS
Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: 10.90"

The following day (Sunday) I got this:

"Your pay as you go refund for 10.90 has been successfully credited to yourOystercard and can now be used for future journeys.
REFUND DETAILS
Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: 10.90
Pick-up location: Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc Lines)"

So I've now been over-refunded by 9.10, as this latter amount reached my
bank two days ago.

Arising out of this, I would caution railway enthusiasts usingOysterPAYG
whilst staying on the system to remember to keep touching out and back in
within the time limits, and perhaps to avoid doing it at OSI locations where
journeys might be incorrectly linked. *Why isn't the system 'clever' enough
to know that the two journeys shown below are separate? *Or is there some
other explanation for this 'operational issue'?

Further comments welcome!

The original entries that caused the problem:
16:44 * *Holborn * Exit * *- 6.00 * * * -2.19
16:23 *London Bridge [London Underground] *Entry *- 4.90 * * 3.81
16:21 *London Bridge [National Rail] *Exit * 3.20 * * 8.71
15:12 *Charing Cross [National Rail] *Entry *- 4.20 * * 5.51

Assumin this was a weekday - the journey was treated as one - OSI at
London Bridge. It then 'saw' one journey from Charing Cross to
Holborn. The maximum journey time for a Z1 only journey is 90 mins
(changed on 2 Jan). You exceeded by 2 mins! So you were charged the
Peak maximum Oyster fare on exit - £6. The auto refund system clearly
picked up the overcharge but is not sophisticated enough to calculate
the refund accurately.

On 21 Jan, 14:04, "John Salmon" wrote:
"John Salmon" wrote



"Paul Corfield" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote:
"John Salmon" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote
I've only recently started usingOysterPAYG on a semi-regular basis.
I
topped up on Tuesday using the FCC ticket machine next to the ticket
office at St Pancras International. I have a couple of queries:

(1) The top-up location on my journey history is shown as "Bus". Why
would that be?

(2) I noticed that the machine showed that theOystercard was loaded
with a Zones 1-4 Weekly Travelcard for a specific week in 2007, and it
offered me the option of renewing it. *I have never had any Travelcard
loaded on theOystercard, indeed I've never used any kind of Weekly
Travelcard. *I did wonder whether this situation is in some way
related
to the fact that this particular card was one I obtained by post (to
Retford) during the short period that 'free' (i.e. without 3 deposit)
cards were on offer. I can't remember when that was - perhaps 2007? *I
think that at that time only cards with a Travelcard loaded were
normally
issued free, so did TfL load an 'expired' Travelcard on all those free
Oystercards?

Sorry, one more query:

(3) I haven't topped up my card since Tuesday. *The journey history is
up-to-date to Wednesday and shows my current balance as 3.91, but the
previous page ('Card Overview') shows the balance as 11.21, a figure
that
doesn't appear anywhere in the journey history. *Can anyone suggest an
explanation?

[now cross-posted to uk.railway]

OK, a day and a half has passed, and not a single reply. *This could mean
(a) I've written complete rubbish so you're all ignoring me or (b) you've
all killfiled me, or even (c) no-one on utl knows any of the answers. *I
*really* find (c) very difficult to believe, as I thought this group
(utl)
was the fount of all knowledge onOystercards. *Doesn't anyone have
anything to say?

I looked at your post and I do not understand why any of the outcomes
you have outlined could arise. That is why you have not had an answer -
I suspect people really do not know the answers.

If you have not already tried theOysterHelp Line then I suggest they
are your best port of call - they at least have access to the central
system and may be able to offer some explanation.

Thanks Paul. I'll try the Help Line, but I know from past experience that
I'll have to have plenty of time to spare. *I'll report back in due course
if I learn anything of interest. *I should add that I'm not in any way
anti-Oyster, but I do want to understand some of the apparently quirky
behaviour that I keep encountering.

I promised to report back...

I haven't yet followed up queries (1) and (2), but (3) has now partially
resolved itself - the 'Card Overview' balance and the journey history
balance are both now the same. *However, I still don't know why the
difference was 7.30, but I do know (or at least think) that it's related to
an overcharge which has now been refunded (twice!). *The first refund was
for 9.10 which it was agreed was to be credited to my bank account (I told
the helpline that I lived 140 miles away and couldn't be sure when I would
next be in London - I'd overlooked a planned trip last Saturday). It related
to a journey from London Bridge to Holborn; on touching out I was charged
6.00 instead of being credited 3.10, I think because two separate journeys
had apparently been linked via London Bridge OSI (I had been hanging around
on the NR platforms looking at trains!) *See journey history entries below.
The refund should really have been for a further 1.80 as I subsequently
reached the daily off-peak cap with my other journeys that day. *I decided
not to bother about that 1.80, but that is where things took an unexpected
twist, which I didn't know about until this morning because I've been behind
with reading my emails and I hadn't until then re-checked my journey
history. *Last Saturday I took a rail trip from Retford to Wool and back (to
traverse a rare crossover there). *As I was using separate Advance tickets
for Retford-King's Cross and Waterloo-Wool, I needed to useOysterPAYG to
travel across London. *Unknown to me at the time, I had received an email
from TfL in the early hours of that very morning:

"Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of
10.90. This is now ready for pick-up at Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc
Lines).
REFUND DETAILS
Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: 10.90"

The following day (Sunday) I got this:

"Your pay as you go refund for 10.90 has been successfully credited to yourOystercard and can now be used for future journeys.
REFUND DETAILS
Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: 10.90
Pick-up location: Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc Lines)"

So I've now been over-refunded by 9.10, as this latter amount reached my
bank two days ago.

Arising out of this, I would caution railway enthusiasts usingOysterPAYG
whilst staying on the system to remember to keep touching out and back in
within the time limits, and perhaps to avoid doing it at OSI locations where
journeys might be incorrectly linked. *Why isn't the system 'clever' enough
to know that the two journeys shown below are separate? *Or is there some
other explanation for this 'operational issue'?

Further comments welcome!

The original entries that caused the problem:
16:44 * *Holborn * Exit * *- 6.00 * * * -2.19
16:23 *London Bridge [London Underground] *Entry *- 4.90 * * 3.81
16:21 *London Bridge [National Rail] *Exit * 3.20 * * 8.71
15:12 *Charing Cross [National Rail] *Entry *- 4.20 * * 5.51

Just re-read and realised you capped (as you wrote). Therfore the
auto refund amount was correct (£4.90 plus £6) Not sure why you were
refunded £9.10 (by someone at the Oyster helpline?) rather than the
£10.90.
As you will have gathered - auto refunds do not appear for a while -
neither you nor the Oyster helpline can see the auto refund initially

"JS" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote

The original entries that caused the problem:
16:44 Holborn Exit - 6.00 -2.19
16:23 London Bridge [London Underground] Entry - 4.90 3.81
16:21 London Bridge [National Rail] Exit 3.20 8.71
15:12 Charing Cross [National Rail] Entry - 4.20 5.51

Assumin this was a weekday - the journey was treated as one - OSI at
London Bridge. It then 'saw' one journey from Charing Cross to Holborn.
The maximum journey time for a Z1 only journey is 90 mins (changed on 2
Jan). You exceeded by 2 mins! So you were charged the Peak maximum
Oyster fare on exit - £6.

Indeed, that's what I thought.

The auto refund system clearly picked up the overcharge but is not
sophisticated enough to calculate the refund accurately.

I think the 'auto refund' was correct, but before it kicked in I'd already
been awarded an incorrect manual refund via the Helpline. What is
surprising is that there seems to be nothing in place to prevent or detect
such duplicate refunds.

"JS" wrote
"John Salmon" wrote:

Just re-read and realised you capped (as you wrote). Therfore the auto
refund amount was correct (£4.90 plus £6) Not sure why you were refunded
£9.10 (by someone at the Oyster helpline?) rather than the £10.90. As you
will have gathered - auto refunds do not appear for a while - neither you
nor the Oyster helpline can see the auto refund initially

Indeed so - my reply to your first message 'crossed' with your second.

On 21 Jan, 19:03, "John Salmon" wrote:
"JS" wrote

"John Salmon" wrote
The original entries that caused the problem:
16:44 Holborn Exit - 6.00 -2.19
16:23 London Bridge [London Underground] Entry - 4.90 3.81
16:21 London Bridge [National Rail] Exit 3.20 8.71
15:12 Charing Cross [National Rail] Entry - 4.20 5.51
Assumin this was a weekday - the journey was treated as one - OSI at
London Bridge. *It then 'saw' one journey from Charing Cross to Holborn.

Expired Travelcard

I do remember that to issue the card Free ( without a £3 deposit) is
was necessary to do a bit of creative loading and at that time a 7 day
Travelcard required no deposit, on issue.

It would not have been a second hand card on issue to yourself, as
cards are never re-issued.

I cannot explain the 'Bus' load at St Pancras - but if you e-mail off
group with your card number I will investigate.

On 21 Jan, 22:14, Hertsman wrote:
Expired Travelcard

I do remember that to issue the card Free ( without a £3 deposit) is
was necessary to do a bit of creative loading and at that time a 7 day
Travelcard required no deposit, on issue.

It would not have been a second hand card on issue to yourself, as
cards are never re-issued.

If cards are never reissued, why return the £3 deposit (although it's
very unlikely that it ever would be returned)?

Why not just call it buying the card, I wonder?


I cannot explain the 'Bus' load at St Pancras - but if you e-mail off
group with your card number I will investigate.

"John Salmon" wrote in
:

Arising out of this, I would caution railway enthusiasts using Oyster
PAYG whilst staying on the system ...

If you are going snything remotely "odd" the advice would always be to get
a paper Travelcard. It's now the same price as a capped Oystercard and
avoids so many problems