On 22/01/2010 02:30, Mizter T wrote:

(And
West Croydon will be - actually, already is - a London Overground
managed station, so there's perhaps a bit more likelihood that they'd
ensure it's a pleasant enough place to wait for, say, eight minutes.)

Well, it has gained a coffee shop in the past year or so, and they even
fixed the leaking roof on platform 4.

Ideally they would give up on it and start again with a new station,
this time providing integration with the tram stop and bus station, some
bogs, step-free access, more seats, etc.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Mizter T wrote:
On 23 Jan, 14:51, "Peter Masson" wrote:

London Bridge has 15 platforms now, and will have 15 platforms when
all is finished. But the Thameslink platforms will be more or less
where the Charing Cross platforms are now, and the Charing Cross
platforms will be more or less on the site of the old South Eastern
low level station, extending a little way into the Brighton train
shed. AIUI the Shard wo't ake any operational space from the station.

Thanks Peter (though I dunno why I didn't just count the total number
of platforms that you said the redeveloped station will have in
earlier posts - d'oh!). Anyhow that firmly puts to bed a
misapprehension that I'd somehow picked up from somewhere.

Found the drawings I was referring to again - they are right at the back of
this pdf on the DfT's 'Thameslink closures' site. What would be helpful is
an overlay showing the exact footprint of the Shard, but you should get the
general layout the new station anyway.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/tl...easons2005.pdf

Paul S

Not entirely relevant, but I was surprised to notice my usual 7.08
BMS-VIC (running to time with no apparent disruptions) taking the
Stewarts Lane Up route on Thursday morning. The last time I went that
way, as suggested upthread, was on an Up Dartford train.

This morning I had a close look at the Down connection where it leaves
the Chatham lines on the south side of the bridge. It looks polished and
well used - is this just VSOE/GatEx empty stock workings?

--
Current nearest station: Pimlico

On 23 Jan, 19:58, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 22/01/2010 02:30, Mizter T wrote:

* (And

West Croydon will be - actually, already is - a LondonOverground
managed station, so there's perhaps a bit more likelihood that they'd
ensure it's a pleasant enough place to wait for, say, eight minutes.)

Well, it has gained a coffee shop in the past year or so, and they even
fixed the leaking roof on platform 4.

Ideally they would give up on it and start again with a new station,
this time providing integration with the tram stop and bus station, some
bogs, step-free access, more seats, etc.

As an aside from this, it has often been commented how useless it can
be to clutter announcements with TOC names, but with LO supposedly
managing the stations, this has been doubled up: "Southern Railway on
behalf of London Overground ..." now preceding announcements (probably
useless anyway, to do with personal possessions).

The main change at Brockley is that the accessible side exit from the
down platform (which has an Oyster pad) is now locked quite early in
the evening, forcing crowds of people to go up the stairs to the
bridge, where they are then trapped as they queue for a single
barrier. I doubt if it's healthy and safe.

On Feb 6, 12:30*pm, MIG wrote:

On 23 Jan, 19:58, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 22/01/2010 02:30, Mizter T wrote:

* (And

West Croydon will be - actually, already is - a LondonOverground
managed station, so there's perhaps a bit more likelihood that they'd
ensure it's a pleasant enough place to wait for, say, eight minutes.)

Well, it has gained a coffee shop in the past year or so, and they even
fixed the leaking roof on platform 4.

Ideally they would give up on it and start again with a new station,
this time providing integration with the tram stop and bus station, some
bogs, step-free access, more seats, etc.

As an aside from this, it has often been commented how useless it can
be to clutter announcements with TOC names, but with LO supposedly
managing the stations, this has been doubled up: "Southern Railway on
behalf of London Overground ..." now preceding announcements (probably
useless anyway, to do with personal possessions).

The main change at Brockley is that the accessible side exit from the
down platform (which has an Oyster pad) is now locked quite early in
the evening, forcing crowds of people to go up the stairs to the
bridge, where they are then trapped as they queue for a single
barrier. *I doubt if it's healthy and safe.

Bah, humbug.

On 6 Feb, 13:35, Mizter T wrote:
On Feb 6, 12:30*pm, MIG wrote:





On 23 Jan, 19:58, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 22/01/2010 02:30, Mizter T wrote:

* (And

West Croydon will be - actually, already is - a LondonOverground
managed station, so there's perhaps a bit more likelihood that they'd
ensure it's a pleasant enough place to wait for, say, eight minutes..)

Well, it has gained a coffee shop in the past year or so, and they even
fixed the leaking roof on platform 4.

Ideally they would give up on it and start again with a new station,
this time providing integration with the tram stop and bus station, some
bogs, step-free access, more seats, etc.

As an aside from this, it has often been commented how useless it can
be to clutter announcements with TOC names, but with LO supposedly
managing the stations, this has been doubled up: "Southern Railway on
behalf of London Overground ..." now preceding announcements (probably
useless anyway, to do with personal possessions).

The main change at Brockley is that the accessible side exit from the
down platform (which has an Oyster pad) is now locked quite early in
the evening, forcing crowds of people to go up the stairs to the
bridge, where they are then trapped as they queue for a single
barrier. *I doubt if it's healthy and safe.

Bah, humbug.

I'm not saying that I'm definitely planning to cancel Christmas over
this, but it is the opposite of what we'd expect from improved
accessibility with LO.

Providing a lift that one or two people can use at a time doesn't
really justify sending a couple of hundred people up the stairs when
they used to use a side gate.

On 06/02/2010 12:30, MIG wrote:
On 23 Jan, 19:58, Arthur wrote:
On 22/01/2010 02:30, Mizter T wrote:

(And

West Croydon will be - actually, already is - a LondonOverground
managed station, so there's perhaps a bit more likelihood that they'd
ensure it's a pleasant enough place to wait for, say, eight minutes.)

Well, it has gained a coffee shop in the past year or so, and they even
fixed the leaking roof on platform 4.

Ideally they would give up on it and start again with a new station,
this time providing integration with the tram stop and bus station, some
bogs, step-free access, more seats, etc.

As an aside from this, it has often been commented how useless it can
be to clutter announcements with TOC names, but with LO supposedly
managing the stations, this has been doubled up: "Southern Railway on
behalf of London Overground ..." now preceding announcements (probably
useless anyway, to do with personal possessions).

I saw on London Reconnections that West Croydon might get "a suite of
new station signage". Yes, that's what it really needs. The current
signs have been there, what, whole months now?

Maybe it need some more of the posh-looking but useless to the point of
misleading diagramtic maps, some of which at Sutton show the lines going
the wrong way!

And next train indicators. Um, it's got some already.

But will they renumber the platforms, laying to rest the ghost of
Platform 2?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

MIG wrote:
On 22 Jan, 09:42, "Paul Scott" wrote:

Looking at all the evidence so far, the 'battering' of the service
only seems to be off peak. Assuming a reduction of 5 to 4 tph meets
the definition...

It does sound good (although not mentioning connections south) but I
suspect that it is sufficiently out of date not to be worth paying too
much attention to. A lot has happened in "a couple of years", not
least the election of a new Mayor, a major recession and some dodgy
deals*. I don't simply take the word of the local campaigners either,
who mention the reduction in service to LB (and Charing Cross) and
lack of connections south, but don't mention the ELL, but I recognise
that they have some justification for cynicism.

I guess we'll know soon enough when the timetable comes out.

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the various
journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction (LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:01 08:11 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:06 08:16 LO starts West Croydon
08:09 08:19 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:14 08:24 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:18 08:28 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:22 08:32 LO starts West Croydon
08:28 08:38 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:31 08:41 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:36 08:46 LO starts West Croydon
08:39 08:49 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:44 08:54 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:47 08:57 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:51 09:01 LO starts West Croydon
08:54 09:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

Typical Off Peak Hour, LO origins alternate as befo

10:01 10:11 LO
10:06 10:16 LO
10:12 10:22 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:16 10:26 LO
10:21 10:31 LO
10:24 10:34 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
10:31 10:41 LO
10:36 10:46 LO
10:42 10:52 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:46 10:56 LO
10:51 11:01 LO
10:54 11:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

I'm having dificulty pinning down where some of the SN services start from
unfortunately, maybe they just start at Norwood Jn?

Thought the times so far might be useful in the context of this thread
though...

Paul S

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
MIG wrote:
On 22 Jan, 09:42, "Paul Scott" wrote:

Looking at all the evidence so far, the 'battering' of the service
only seems to be off peak. Assuming a reduction of 5 to 4 tph meets
the definition...

It does sound good (although not mentioning connections south) but I
suspect that it is sufficiently out of date not to be worth paying too
much attention to. A lot has happened in "a couple of years", not
least the election of a new Mayor, a major recession and some dodgy
deals*. I don't simply take the word of the local campaigners either,
who mention the reduction in service to LB (and Charing Cross) and
lack of connections south, but don't mention the ELL, but I recognise
that they have some justification for cynicism.

I guess we'll know soon enough when the timetable comes out.

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the various
journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website
produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction (LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:01 08:11 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:06 08:16 LO starts West Croydon
08:09 08:19 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:14 08:24 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:18 08:28 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:22 08:32 LO starts West Croydon
08:28 08:38 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:31 08:41 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:36 08:46 LO starts West Croydon
08:39 08:49 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:44 08:54 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:47 08:57 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:51 09:01 LO starts West Croydon
08:54 09:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

Typical Off Peak Hour, LO origins alternate as befo

10:01 10:11 LO
10:06 10:16 LO
10:12 10:22 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:16 10:26 LO
10:21 10:31 LO
10:24 10:34 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
10:31 10:41 LO
10:36 10:46 LO
10:42 10:52 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:46 10:56 LO
10:51 11:01 LO
10:54 11:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

I'm having dificulty pinning down where some of the SN services start from
unfortunately, maybe they just start at Norwood Jn?

Caterham?

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
MIG wrote:
On 22 Jan, 09:42, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Looking at all the evidence so far, the 'battering' of the service
only seems to be off peak. Assuming a reduction of 5 to 4 tph meets
the definition...

It does sound good (although not mentioning connections south) but I
suspect that it is sufficiently out of date not to be worth paying
too
much attention to. A lot has happened in "a couple of years", not
least the election of a new Mayor, a major recession and some dodgy
deals*. I don't simply take the word of the local campaigners
either,
who mention the reduction in service to LB (and Charing Cross) and
lack of connections south, but don't mention the ELL, but I recognise
that they have some justification for cynicism.

I guess we'll know soon enough when the timetable comes out.

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the various
journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website
produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction
(LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:01 08:11 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:06 08:16 LO starts West Croydon
08:09 08:19 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:14 08:24 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:18 08:28 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:22 08:32 LO starts West Croydon
08:28 08:38 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:31 08:41 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:36 08:46 LO starts West Croydon
08:39 08:49 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:44 08:54 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:47 08:57 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:51 09:01 LO starts West Croydon
08:54 09:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

Typical Off Peak Hour, LO origins alternate as befo

10:01 10:11 LO
10:06 10:16 LO
10:12 10:22 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:16 10:26 LO
10:21 10:31 LO
10:24 10:34 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
10:31 10:41 LO
10:36 10:46 LO
10:42 10:52 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:46 10:56 LO
10:51 11:01 LO
10:54 11:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

I'm having dificulty pinning down where some of the SN services start
from
unfortunately, maybe they just start at Norwood Jn?

Thought the times so far might be useful in the context of this thread
though...

The off-peak Southern service will be
2tph London Bridge - London Victoria (via Crystal Palace)
2tph London Bridge - Caterham

The current 2tph London Bridge - Sutton is replaced by a combination of
the 4tph LO Dalston Jn - West Croydon and extending the current 2tph
London Victoria - West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) to Sutton.

Peter Smyth