"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message
...
However, there is also an entrance to Southwark tube station on the
eastern ends of the platform. This leads down to the undercroft of
the
viaduct, which leads on to a hallway where there is a set of gates
that gains one access to the tube station, which one gets to by then
descending some escalators. This hallway is actually at street level,
but there's *no* exit to the street at all - it sits beside and a bit
under the southside of the viaduct, between Greet Street and
Hatfields
(another street). The reason for this is that it was a condition of
the planning permission of Southwark tube station that there wasn't a
public entrance/exit here - it's a quasi-residential area, so the
thinking presumably was to keep it quieter.


There are actually now two sets of gates facing each other
(Southeastern and TfL) with a small no-mans-land area in between where
there are Southeastern and Tfl ticket machines

I have visions of people without a pound to buy a platform ticket
stranded between the gates for evermore.

Peter Smyth

On Jan 28, 6:23*pm, MIG wrote:

On 28 Jan, 16:24, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 28, 3:38*pm, "Batman55" wrote:

"martin" wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

====================

It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.
Walking towards Waterloo and then back again is ridiculous and the fact that
this wasn't thought through when the station was opened shows very poor
judgement. It is true that the exit for Waterloo East is shown as via
Waterloo (and the signs to Southwark just say Jubilee Line), but it still
needs sorting out.

It was thought through though - it was a condition of the planning
permission given for Southwark tube station that no new intermediate
exit from Waterloo East onto the street be created. Presumably this
was done to keep surrounding residential areas quieter.

Does this condition no longer apply? *Or is the £1 platform ticket
considered to be sufficient to price off a significant proportion of
the people who don't have travelcards?

You misunderstand me - AIUI planning permission for the station was
conditional on there simply being no new entrance to Waterloo East -
there were no associated conditions w.r.t. pax passing through
Southwark tube to get to Waterloo, though I suppose the letter of the
law might suggest that the (then) new Southwark tube station wasn't to
be used for such a purpose.


It effectively does provide an exit for anyone with a travelcard,
which is a lot of people, and probably the majority of people at the
times when it's busiest. *It's the obvious route from the south east
to TfL's offices, for example ...

Indeed, the Palestra building!

But I wouldn't be too quick to leap to conclusions about how many
commuters arriving at Waterloo East hold Travelcards - NR-only season
tickets can offer significantly savings...
e.g
Orpington (z6) to London Terminals - £139.10 (monthly)
zone 1-6 Travelcard - £182.80 (monthly)

All depends on what other travelling that person might be during that
month, of course. (And changes in PAYG bus and Tube fares versus the
Travelcard price has the potential to shift that calculus on an annual
basis!)

In uk.railway Peter Smyth wrote:
I have visions of people without a pound to buy a platform ticket
stranded between the gates for evermore.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road
that leads to destruction."

But perhaps Waterloo Road isn't /that/ bad...

Theo

On 28 Jan, 18:30, Mizter T wrote:
On Jan 28, 5:33*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:51:38 -0800 (PST), martin
wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

I'm not entirely clear what is going on here but one factor to bear in
mind is that South Eastern have recently gated Waterloo East thus
creating the situation of a no man's land between their new exit
gateline (at what is the eastern end of their station) and the entry
gateline at the western end of LU's Southwark Station. Therefore it is
now possible to be marooned between two gatelines with no exit to the
street (as such an exit was never constructed). *Quite how that
situation was allowed to arise I do not know nor how it was ever
approved on safety grounds.

AIUI there's no exit to the street for planning consent reasons.

I presume the safety issue is predominantly that of effectively
managing heavy crowds, yes? I can certainly see the potential issue
there, what with two independent gatelines under the responsibility of
two different sets of staff, working for different companies.



Whether the new gateline has created a need for platform tickets to be
required in the LUL station or whether there is a recorded abuse of the
old "let them through" attitude I do not know. * I suspect this will run
and run given the political pressure sitting behind it - cue lots of
Mayor's questions.

There used to be a poster or two in the main ticket hall at Southwark
tube station (i.e. the one on the corner of The Cut and Blackfriars
Road) which stated that gate passes were available for NR season
ticket holders, which were IIRC free - said gate passes were to enable
them to make use of this shortcut. That was a while back, and when I
looked more recently I couldn't find any such notices.

I'm therefore wondering if these gate passes, if they were indeed
still available, have now been withdrawn - but the article makes no
mention of this whatsoever. So I'm tempted to actually think this is a
new arrangement put in place because the new Southeastern gates might
have made the 'old "let them through" attitude' unworkable - perhaps
the SE gates swallow tickets to 'London Terminals', whereas previously
there was an informal arrangement whereby pax brandishing NR tickets
were let through at both gatelines?

That's quite likely, thinking about it.

The new barriers (and others at local stations) take away one
emergency option I used to have. That is, when the local queue was
too long and/or the local Oyster-selling machine wasn't working and/or
I just forgot to renew, the LU ticket window at the bottom of the
Waterloo East stairs could do an Oyster travelcard season renewal.
(Technically, one journey without a ticket, but no fare evaded in the
end.)

In message , Theo Markettos
writes

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road
that leads to destruction."

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
poor person to enter the passageway of Southwark.

--
Paul Terry

On 28.01.10 14:51, martin wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

I remember platform tickets a while ago. IIRC, they cost 40p. Are they
no longer available or is there not such a facility with Oyster if it is
not done within a few minutes?

On 28.01.10 21:59, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:24:00 +0000, "
wrote:

On 28.01.10 14:51, martin wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

I remember platform tickets a while ago. IIRC, they cost 40p. Are they
no longer available or is there not such a facility with Oyster if it is
not done within a few minutes?

Yes they still exist - they cost £1 as in this case. There is no
facility with Oyster as I understand it for platform tickets. I think
there is something set up if someone enters, changes their mind and then
exits within a short time at the same station. I don't know what
happens and nothing I've read recently explains it. I have a vague
recollection of posts on the group about this a number of months ago.

But I did that once with my Oyster. I entered the station for not more
than a couple of minutes, then exited again. But I was still charged £1.60.

Mizter T wrote

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who
then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Since it's an OSI that links it to another thread !

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high
level walkway nowadays?

I thought it always had, I certainly remember going though a gateline
to and from Waterloo on rare visits long ago.

--
Mike D

On 28 Jan, 16:24, Mizter T wrote:

It was thought through though...

Do you mind if I keep that sentence?

On 28 Jan, 23:47, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Mizter T wrote

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who

then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Since it's an OSI that links it to another thread !

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high

level walkway nowadays?

I thought it always had, I certainly remember going though a gateline
to and from Waterloo on rare visits long ago.

--
Mike D

Revenue staff used to locate themselves in the corridor to platforms B
to D and separately beyond the help point going to platform A. I
never remember seeing Revenue staff at the exit to the Jubilee Line.

The top area can get rather crowded given the help point, departure
boards and ticket machines. Have the ticket machines been resited on
the high level walkway with the installation of barriers? I'll have
to pass through some time.