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Conflict of Oyster Cards
Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles
as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
In message
CJB wrote: Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. Yup, I have the same problem with my Southampton old codgers bus pass. Paranoia hint for people like David Hansen, if you've a new passport with a chip in and are worried about it being remotely scanned, keep an Oyster card in with it. -- Graeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/ |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 29, 10:44*am, CJB wrote:
Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. A former colleague had similar trouble with his Oyster card and his season ticket for a football club - Fulham, IIRC. I think this problem's only going to become more prevalent over the next few years. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
CJB wrote:
Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. I had the same problem with a new Barclaycard which had 'PayPass' contactless tech built into it. I've always kept my Oyster in the same wallet as my other cards and loose change - it's just so easy just to take the wallet out of my pocket and bash it onto an Oyster reader, meaning I don't have to faff about trying to retrieve the Oyster and its own wallet. I never had any trouble (unless the wallet was full of change, which blocked the signals) until the new credit card arrived. It just plain refuses to register on an Oyster reader, even when I just have the credit card and the Oyster card in the standard issue plastic Oyster wallet. I was going to contact Barclaycard to ask whether I could have a card without PayPass, but after recalling previous experiences dealing with their customer services I decided against it... Net result: Barclaycard have lost my business to AmEx, and I get the bonus of a credit card company that don't treat their customers with contempt. I do wonder though what will happen as more and more debit/credit cards get contactless tech - will they interfere with each other, and not just with Oyster cards? |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 29, 11:33*am, "Gretchen Lauss" wrote:
I do wonder though what will happen as more and more debit/credit cards get contactless tech - will they interfere with each other, and not just with Oyster cards? There are two basic maybe two effects he - Cards stored together disrupt the collection of power by all of them. - But, if more than one of those cards collects enough power to operate, the terminal then has to use the anti-collision mechanism specified by the standard (ISO 14443 in the case of Oyster and bank payment cards - and also for ITSO cards) in order to identify all the operating cards, send the ones that it doesn't want to communicate with to sleep, and then carry out its transaction. Of course, if only one card collects enough power to operate, and it is not the right one, that creates a different problem. And if the right one starts up and then another starts up later, that can also disrupt the transaction. And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function... |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On 29 Jan, 14:31, ticketyboo wrote:
On Jan 29, 11:33*am, "Gretchen Lauss" wrote: I do wonder though what will happen as more and more debit/credit cards get contactless tech - will they interfere with each other, and not just with Oyster cards? There are two basic maybe two effects he - Cards stored together disrupt the collection of power by all of them. - But, if more than one of those cards collects enough power to operate, the terminal then has to use the anti-collision mechanism specified by the standard (ISO 14443 in the case of Oyster and bank payment cards - and also for ITSO cards) in order to identify all the operating cards, send the ones that it doesn't want to communicate with to sleep, and then carry out its transaction. Of course, if only one card collects enough power to operate, and it is not the right one, that creates a different problem. And if the right one starts up and then another starts up later, that can also disrupt the transaction. And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function... I have a Smartlink (similar to Oyster) card for PATH in New Jersey. It works fine with my Oyster card next to it, but the Oyster will never read unless I take the Smartlink card away. Not too much of a problem in this case, since I'm seldom going to want to use both on the same day, but it could be a real problem as these cards become more common if you need to carry several around with you, and they interfere with each other. Clearly they don't have to do this, as the Smartlink readers will quite happily ignore the Oyster card. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:44:17 -0800, CJB wrote:
embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. This is going to start happening more and more as various other organisations start using non contact smart cards. The people who make the 'access control' system at my work have said they want to replace the mag-strip readers with MiFare Classic readers and replace all our cards. Oyster is Mifare Class - so the door reader at work will one day cause any near by Oyster card to respond as well as the 'proper' access card, with the system probably objecting when it gets responses from two cards instead of one. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:31:42 -0800, ticketyboo wrote:
- But, if more than one of those cards collects enough power to operate, the terminal then has to use the anti-collision mechanism specified by the standard (ISO 14443 in the case of Oyster and bank payment cards - and also for ITSO cards) in order to identify all the operating cards, send the ones that it doesn't want to communicate with to sleep, and then carry out its transaction. My experience with having a (new) Singapore CEPAS ezlink in my wallet is an Oyster terminal says 'multiple cards presented' and then won't continue until you remove the other cards from it's field so it only sees one. And the Singapore card has a better antenna - I discovered that the LU gates were still getting upset - I had removed my oyster from my wallet and was placing it on the reader to open the gates - but as I walked through the gates beeped. It dawned on me later, the Oyster pad must have been getting a response from the Singapore CEPAS card as I walked through the gate - at range of over 20cm between my hip pocket and the Oyster reader pad. (The Oyster card being my my hand or back in my shirt pocket by this stage). |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 29, 10:44*am, CJB wrote:
Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. And if you bothered to read the user information when you got the oyster card it tells to do EXACTLY that - keep it away from other cards. -- Nick |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
martin wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:44 am, CJB wrote: Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. A former colleague had similar trouble with his Oyster card and his season ticket for a football club - Fulham, IIRC. I think this problem's only going to become more prevalent over the next few years. I keep my Oyster and my work pass together. My work barriers can cope fine with them together, but TFL barriers can't and I have to separate them. Is my work too lenient or is TFL too strict? |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
Matthew Geier wrote
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:31:42 -0800, ticketyboo wrote: - But, if more than one of those cards collects enough power to operate, the terminal then has to use the anti-collision mechanism specified by the standard (ISO 14443 in the case of Oyster and bank payment cards - and also for ITSO cards) in order to identify all the operating cards, send the ones that it doesn't want to communicate with to sleep, and then carry out its transaction. My experience with having a (new) Singapore CEPAS ezlink in my wallet is an Oyster terminal says 'multiple cards presented' and then won't continue until you remove the other cards from it's field so it only sees one. And the Singapore card has a better antenna - I discovered that the LU gates were still getting upset - I had removed my oyster from my wallet and was placing it on the reader to open the gates - but as I walked through the gates beeped. It dawned on me later, the Oyster pad must have been getting a response from the Singapore CEPAS card as I walked through the gate - at range of over 20cm between my hip pocket and the Oyster reader pad. (The Oyster card being my my hand or back in my shirt by this stage). obviously you should wrap the Singapore card in tinfoil - err aluminium foil - like an RFID passport. But if you want hands-free entrance to your office block and the anti-collision mechanism isn't implemented properly a lot of card shuffling is going to have to take place. -- Mike D |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On 29/01/2010 14:31, ticketyboo wrote:
And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function... Yikes, I expect it would cost a fair amount to replace all those readers, which they will have to do when more and more people are carrying cards with rfid in them (apart from oyster). -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLY42QAAoJEKba9nIFysTLLO8P/A83XJJ/H6tzbI9ZpzDSS11Y qZzwefd9sbLOxWaZyhK/HAMaThkwBlDJyo7EjhXU9md876vhSKp7me/HzNafGJOF wS1OGmnNM9n09zHVfhSH5m3bI2hOi94XgqGLXSb4UsGP3kUBuY X9YCneXCPEDnMN r3y7hXS1EQIvNVlgfWdzgwgac9UDKG62fTVBJcCXfecvY2qmCb rptk5717pmkYBl XgPMWTN54/CWSUTVwlkvxK9V4njKSgMDcYjMdN+5lxvW2I7kV7lANWbYLHx6 jYJs aMAjWa1eeupcVCuN4lXrMKBKfSRuZSgvBKKFSFfI6yzO7oAFwq OfWtI2odsBxYfo x9W/sdJ4XqUcllVHW7whJ2exmH9Prfjq1HvazkvkSGTMlG56vdM0Gp VrT+ndxM0U lfyS+PeW9NIWLdsuLUSKTdViLgofj953t4SlOZzoe9KQEie8N7 E9PTN+sIb6RlgZ ayEVDtb9eGd5KxdGPPnUMYiJer1+HqtSHYunLVWB8BL2VZE5M3 88LbWoDHfD/Pj0 uKZrKXLIolMEIm/RoxxW7rSYlRT3wYDPgLZNi9z/t/brzsXyyn31B/FkigWIHcaQ nktF3gL4PXa7Kqk8injc3M/jsm8w4ry2OmpVABlXaRZNMQGkHZIryEsA/y3+PnQS aecPr+KKbbjdxXI3yTE5 =JInF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 29, 5:00*pm, Stephen Furley wrote:
On 29 Jan, 14:31, ticketyboo wrote: And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function... I have a Smartlink (similar to Oyster) card for PATH in New Jersey. It works fine with my Oyster card next to it, but the Oyster will never read unless I take the Smartlink card away. *Not too much of a problem in this case, since I'm seldom going to want to use both on the same day, but it could be a real problem as these cards become more common if you need to carry several around with you, and they interfere with each other. *Clearly they don't have to do this, as the Smartlink readers will quite happily ignore the Oyster card. Which further suggests that indeed today Oyster does not implement the anti-collision function. Maybe the next generation of Oyster terminals will do that - they have to be rather more powerful, in order to be able to handle all of the ITSO card types (about 4 in truth) as well as Oyster and contactless bank payment). |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 29, 8:23*pm, Matthew Geier
wrote: On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:44:17 -0800, CJB wrote: embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. *This is going to start happening more and more as various other organisations start using non contact smart cards. *The people who make the 'access control' system at my work have said they want to replace the mag-strip readers with MiFare Classic readers and replace all our cards. Oyster is Mifare Class - so the door reader at work will one day cause any near by Oyster card to respond as well as the 'proper' access card, with the system probably objecting when it gets responses from two cards instead of one. The access control suppliers really should move on beyond Mifare Classic for new smart card installations. OK, the simple hack of access control systems has attacked those that do not even use the security functions available with Mifare Classic (they attack schemes that only read the card serial number), but attackers quickly learn more. Access control should use Mifare DESFire and AES encryption now, with provision for Mifare Plus (also in its AES version) later (because Mifare Plus cards will cost less). |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 29, 11:53*pm, David E Newton wrote:
martin wrote: On Jan 29, 10:44 am, CJB wrote: Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. A former colleague had similar trouble with his Oyster card and his season ticket for a football club - Fulham, IIRC. I think this problem's only going to become more prevalent over the next few years. I keep my Oyster and my work pass together. My work barriers can cope fine with them together, but TFL barriers can't and I have to separate them. Is my work too lenient or is TFL too strict? Paraphrasing my comment on an earlier post, Oyster is too simple. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 30, 1:38*am, Chris Hills wrote:
On 29/01/2010 14:31, ticketyboo wrote: And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function... Yikes, I expect it would cost a fair amount to replace all those readers, which they will have to do when more and more people are carrying cards with rfid in them (apart from oyster). *signature.asc 1KViewDownload Part of the investment coming about as a result of TfL breaking the Transys contract at its breakpoint this year is that new investment is triggered (including some DfT money), which is how all the readers and embedded controllers in the gates and buses will be upgraded to handle ITSO and contactless bank payment as well as Oyster. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On 30.01.10 7:22, ticketyboo wrote:
On Jan 29, 5:00 pm, Stephen wrote: On 29 Jan, 14:31, wrote: And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function... I have a Smartlink (similar to Oyster) card for PATH in New Jersey. It works fine with my Oyster card next to it, but the Oyster will never read unless I take the Smartlink card away. Not too much of a problem in this case, since I'm seldom going to want to use both on the same day, but it could be a real problem as these cards become more common if you need to carry several around with you, and they interfere with each other. Clearly they don't have to do this, as the Smartlink readers will quite happily ignore the Oyster card. Which further suggests that indeed today Oyster does not implement the anti-collision function. Maybe the next generation of Oyster terminals will do that - they have to be rather more powerful, in order to be able to handle all of the ITSO card types (about 4 in truth) as well as Oyster and contactless bank payment). Are there indeed plans for new oyster readers? I imagine that they would not look any different from an external point of view. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
I wonder if TfL will eventually get rid of the magnetic strip tickets in favour of disposable SmartCards for single journeys or infrequent trips? |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
And if you bothered to read the user information when you got the
oyster card it tells to do EXACTLY that - keep it away from other cards. Oh - so that's all right then. Thank goodness the customer is at fault for having only one wallet. -- Peter 'Prof' Fox Multitude of things for beer, cycling, Morris and curiosities at http://vulpeculox.net |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
In message
, ticketyboo writes The access control suppliers really should move on beyond Mifare Classic for new smart card installations. OK, the simple hack of access control systems has attacked those that do not even use the security functions available with Mifare Classic (they attack schemes that only read the card serial number), but attackers quickly learn more. Access control should use Mifare DESFire and AES encryption now, with provision for Mifare Plus (also in its AES version) later (because Mifare Plus cards will cost less). The new Freedom Passes currently being issued use the Desfire 4K chipset, in order to allow for future ITSO compatability. I gather that Oyster readers were upgraded to read the new Desfire chip at the end of last year. -- Paul Terry |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
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Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 30, 10:45*am, Paul Terry wrote: In message , ticketyboo writes The access control suppliers really should move on beyond Mifare Classic for new smart card installations. OK, the simple hack of access control systems has attacked those that do not even use the security functions available with Mifare Classic (they attack schemes that only read the card serial number), but attackers quickly learn more. Access control should use Mifare DESFire and AES encryption now, with provision for Mifare Plus (also in its AES version) later (because Mifare Plus cards will cost less). The new Freedom Passes currently being issued use the Desfire 4K chipset, in order to allow for future ITSO compatability. I gather that Oyster readers were upgraded to read the new Desfire chip at the end of last year. This presumably was a software/firmware update, as opposed to any physical modification - the latter would've entailed an enormous programme of works! |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
In message
, Mizter T writes On Jan 30, 10:45*am, Paul Terry wrote: The new Freedom Passes currently being issued use the Desfire 4K chipset, in order to allow for future ITSO compatability. I gather that Oyster readers were upgraded to read the new Desfire chip at the end of last year. This presumably was a software/firmware update, as opposed to any physical modification - the latter would've entailed an enormous programme of works! I'm not sure. According to the October issue of Freedom Pass News: "We have had to wait for this opportunity while TfL colleagues amended their gate and reader network for the new generation cards. So far approximately 15 Underground/Overground stations have been completed and approximately 4,000 of the 8,500 bus gate readers have been updated." This sounds as though the update was more than just a simple data dump from the central system, but it may have just involved flashing the firmware in individual readers rather than physical changes, as the whole process was finished and tested before Christmas. TfL have also had to supply at least 1.2 million cards for the changeover, as the old ones cannot be renewed and will all cease to work on 31st March (as it is a legal requirement for all Concessionary Bus Travel cards to be ITSO compatible from April). It seems astonishing that the testing went so smoothly, especially given that the cards have only a single chip that can hold both Oyster and ITSO data (two chips on one card was deemed too expensive). But I guess that the Freedom Pass is a very simple implementation of Oyster, and I doubt that the ITSO part has been tested at all, given that the only working ITSO ticket scheme I know of is on Blackpool Borough Council buses! -- Paul Terry |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:26:57 -0800, ticketyboo wrote:
On Jan 29, 8:23Â*pm, Matthew Geier wrote: Â*The people who make the 'access control' system at my work have said they want to replace the mag-strip readers with MiFare Classic readers and replace all our cards. The access control suppliers really should move on beyond Mifare Classic for new smart card installations. I assume they are concerned more with the price of the cards than actual real security. The current mag cards can be cloned, so can the MiFare classic, so from that point it's bought nothing. I suspect their main concern is the maintenance - the mag readers need regular cleaning of the read heads and wear out and thus need replacing after a time. The cards wear out from constant swiping. RFID gets rid of a lot of maintenance. The system is designed around simply reading the serial number of the card and consulting a database, so they won't be using any of the other 'smart' features either with out a significant redesign of the system. It's really just a cost cutting exercise. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
"Paul Terry" wrote It seems astonishing that the testing went so smoothly, especially given that the cards have only a single chip that can hold both Oyster and ITSO data (two chips on one card was deemed too expensive). But I guess that the Freedom Pass is a very simple implementation of Oyster, and I doubt that the ITSO part has been tested at all, given that the only working ITSO ticket scheme I know of is on Blackpool Borough Council buses! Presumably London buses will be able to read bus passes issued outside London. Peter |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010, CJB wrote:
Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. My entry card at UCL was the same. I asked my building manager about it, and he said that it was okay if i tapped my Oyster on the building reader, as long as i remembered to touch out later. He had a *very* good straight face. tom -- I know thats not really relevant but I've just typed the words and my backspace key doesn't work. -- phorenzik |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
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Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 30, 6:25*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Mizter T writes On Jan 30, 10:45*am, Paul Terry wrote: The new Freedom Passes currently being issued use the Desfire 4K chipset, in order to allow for future ITSO compatability. I gather that Oyster readers were upgraded to read the new Desfire chip at the end of last year. This presumably was a software/firmware update, as opposed to any physical modification - the latter would've entailed an enormous programme of works! I'm not sure. According to the October issue of Freedom Pass News: "We have had to wait for this opportunity while TfL colleagues amended their gate and reader network for the new generation cards. So far approximately 15 Underground/Overground stations have been completed and approximately 4,000 of the 8,500 bus gate readers have been updated." This sounds as though the update was more than just a simple data dump from the central system, but it may have just involved flashing the firmware in individual readers rather than physical changes, as the whole process was finished and tested before Christmas. TfL have also had to supply at least 1.2 million cards for the changeover, as the old ones cannot be renewed and will all cease to work on 31st March (as it is a legal requirement for all Concessionary Bus Travel cards to be ITSO compatible from April). It seems astonishing that the testing went so smoothly, especially given that the cards have only a single chip that can hold both Oyster and ITSO data (two chips on one card was deemed too expensive). But I guess that the Freedom Pass is a very simple implementation of Oyster, and I doubt that the ITSO part has been tested at all, given that the only working ITSO ticket scheme I know of is on Blackpool Borough Council buses! From a Cubic man about 18 months ago: latest model gates being produced then still did not have a controller able to handle ITSO, but next upgrade to the controller (needing hardware change: more memory, possibly more powerful processor) would be a drop-in replacement. Then the older the gate, the more difficult it will be to upgrade it. ITSO testing? There are services available to do that (but the ITSO Ltd / Integri certification service doesn't include full functional testing - AIDC in Barnsley is working up to doing that), and I would expect Cubic to also do it themselves. But the new Freedom passes of course also do need testing for ITSO use outside London, and I'm trying to find out if a reported problem in that operating environment has been fixed (nobody seemed to be taking ownership of the problem a couple of months ago, with ITSO Ltd being a headless chicken until last week when a new CEO took over with DfT funding). At least half of the buses in Lancs/Cumbria/Blackpool/Blackburn (NoWcard scheme) are reported as now accepting ITSO on Mifare Classic and on DESFire, although some have trouble with the Bracknell microprocessor card. NoWcard is currently going through a core back office upgrade procurement process. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On 30 Jan 2010 00:29:48 GMT someone who may be "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote this:- obviously you should wrap the Singapore card in tinfoil - err aluminium foil - like an RFID passport. Sleeves and wallets are available [1]. Anyone who does not have their passport/card(s) in one, and thus is able to know when it is read, is taking a risk which will only become greater over time. [1] for example http://www.smartcardfocus.com/shop/ilp/se~102/p/index.shtml -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54 |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:08:26 -0800 (PST) someone who may be D7666
wrote this:- And if you bothered to read the user information when you got the oyster card it tells to do EXACTLY that - keep it away from other cards. I don't recall any information being provided with the cards our group got in December, we bought 25-30 of the things. However, they are not the ones one has to leak personal information to Boris for. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54 |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
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Conflict of Oyster Cards
Theo Markettos wrote:
Cost of a basic smartcard is somewhere in the region of $1-$5. That's not going to be cost effective unless it becomes feasible to make them out of organic or polycrystalline semiconductors (cheap, but the density and performance is nowhere near yet). Then they could be printed on paper again, or plastic. In Portugal (Porto and Lisbon), they use stiff paper smartcards for ticketing, and the cost of the card is a few tens of Euro cents in addition to the cost of the travel (I can't remember the exact cost, but it was considerably less than $1). The cards are two layers of stiff paper or thin card and the aerial is made of foil in between the two layers. There is a small (about 1 mm square) chip that you can see as a small lump in the card. (A few years ago I disassembled a Lisbon one to see how it was constructed). -- Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam} Rail and transport photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/ |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
......
I was going to contact Barclaycard to ask whether I could have a card without PayPass, but after recalling previous experiences dealing with their customer services I decided against it... Net result: Barclaycard have lost my business to AmEx, and I get the bonus of a credit card company that don't treat their customers with contempt. ..... I did contact Barclaycard, and they promised me that was no problem; a week later I received a new card...with paypass still on it. A few phonecalls later and I too had left Barclaycard - awful CS. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
stan5001 wrote:
Barclaycard - awful CS. Couldn't agree more. Another "Lets outsource it to India and provide the workers with a first line script that doesn't actually work for customers" operation. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
CJB wrote:
Recently I obtained a Hillingdon Community Services card which doubles as a Library user's card. And put it into the same card wallet as my Oyster card - in which I also keep my bank card. Suddently my Oyster card stopped working on trains and buses, and even the Heathrow Connect portable validators wouldn't recognise it - to considerable embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card - which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated. CJB. Having been the holder of a cambridge uni card for a while (never used oyster but had a few freinds who had both) they could get to lectures fine with both cards being read, but when they tried to get the tube is complained about unactive oyster card or somthing, anyway the answer is to put one card on one side of your wallet, the other on the other side, and a credit card shaped peice of tinfoil behind each, touch one side of the wallet for oyster, the other side for door entry |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 31, 9:50*pm, Jeremy Double wrote:
Theo Markettos wrote: Cost of a basic smartcard is somewhere in the region of $1-$5. *That's not going to be cost effective unless it becomes feasible to make them out of organic or polycrystalline semiconductors (cheap, but the density and performance is nowhere near yet). *Then they could be printed on paper again, or plastic. In Portugal (Porto and Lisbon), they use stiff paper smartcards for ticketing, and the cost of the card is a few tens of Euro cents in addition to the cost of the travel (I can't remember the exact cost, but it was considerably less than $1). The cards are two layers of stiff paper or thin card and the aerial is made of foil in between the two layers. There is a small (about 1 mm square) chip that you can see as a small lump in the card. (A few years ago I disassembled a Lisbon one to see how it was constructed). -- Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam} Rail and transport photos athttp://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdouble/collections/72157603834894248/ The contrast here is between a stiff plastic card with high quality printing and a protective overlay (life 10 years) and the laminated paper and foil construction, simpler printing, less physically secure and life about a year (longer life, more cost, if protective overlays are used). But also the low cost product tends to use a cheaper chip with lower security. There is a new generation of low cost chips with AES encryption (current mainstream USA designed symmetric crypto), but UK/EU infrastructure in general doesn't support it yet - building access terminals will be the first to do that, maybe by the end of this year for the first commercial system offerings. |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
ticketyboo wrote:
On Jan 31, 9:50 pm, Jeremy Double wrote: Theo Markettos wrote: Cost of a basic smartcard is somewhere in the region of $1-$5. That's not going to be cost effective unless it becomes feasible to make them out of organic or polycrystalline semiconductors (cheap, but the density and performance is nowhere near yet). Then they could be printed on paper again, or plastic. In Portugal (Porto and Lisbon), they use stiff paper smartcards for ticketing, and the cost of the card is a few tens of Euro cents in addition to the cost of the travel (I can't remember the exact cost, but it was considerably less than $1). The cards are two layers of stiff paper or thin card and the aerial is made of foil in between the two layers. There is a small (about 1 mm square) chip that you can see as a small lump in the card. (A few years ago I disassembled a Lisbon one to see how it was constructed). -- Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam} Rail and transport photos athttp://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdouble/collections/72157603834894248/ The contrast here is between a stiff plastic card with high quality printing and a protective overlay (life 10 years) and the laminated paper and foil construction, simpler printing, less physically secure and life about a year (longer life, more cost, if protective overlays are used). But if you want to use smartcards for all tickets (as appeared to be the case when I was in Porto in the Autumn), the low cost option is more acceptable to visitors... I wouldn't worry about having to pay 50 cents for a paper smartcard on which to load tickets for a trip of a day or two, but once the cost gets much above one Euro, and the smartcard is plastic and suitable for 10 years continuous use, I start to think I'm being ripped off. -- Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam} Rail and transport photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/ |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Jan 30, 10:21*am, "
wrote: I wonder if TfL will eventually get rid of the magnetic strip tickets in favour of disposable SmartCards for single journeys or infrequent trips? That or re-usable tokens (about the size of a gbp2 coin) like used in Singapore? Neil |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Feb 1, 9:14*am, Jeremy Double wrote:
I wouldn't worry about having to pay 50 cents for a paper smartcard on which to load tickets for a trip of a day or two, but once the cost gets much above one Euro, and the smartcard is plastic and suitable for 10 years continuous use, I start to think I'm being ripped off. Or you re-jig your ticket machines such that they can refund deposits? I'm not convinced there is an issue then. Neil |
Conflict of Oyster Cards
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:31:36PM +0000, Matthew Geier wrote:
And the Singapore card has a better antenna - I discovered that the LU gates were still getting upset - I had removed my oyster from my wallet and was placing it on the reader to open the gates - but as I walked through the gates beeped. It dawned on me later, the Oyster pad must have been getting a response from the Singapore CEPAS card as I walked through the gate - at range of over 20cm between my hip pocket and the Oyster reader pad. And yet people still think contactless payment systems are a good idea. Proprietary stored value cards that only work in closed systems like Oyster aren't so bad, but I wouldn't feel particularly happy at accidentally paying for the purchases of the person in front of me in the queue at the petrol station. -- David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic Fashion label: n: a liferaft for personalities which lack intrinsic buoyancy |
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