Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

Surprised not to see a thread here yet. See
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-is-waging-war
-on-our-citys-subversive-south.do or http://snipurl.com/ubl23.

I don't entirely go along with Jenkins' thesis and note he gave a closure
period for Albert Bridge at variance with the photo attached to his
article (presumably an editorial rather than his cock-up). However, he has
a bit of a point, doesn't he?

--
Colin Rosenstiel (born and bred in South London)

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

On 10 Feb, 01:23, wrote:
Surprised not to see a thread here yet. Seehttp://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23803662-boris-is-wagi...
-on-our-citys-subversive-south.do orhttp://snipurl.com/ubl23.

I don't entirely go along with Jenkins' thesis and note he gave a closure
period for Albert Bridge at variance with the photo attached to his
article (presumably an editorial rather than his cock-up). However, he has
a bit of a point, doesn't he?

As I said before, this is why Boris was furious about the Thames being
removed, since it was the only barrier keeping out the South London
hordes.

It makes sense that, having put the Thames back, he is now setting
about reducing the opportunities to cross it.

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

wrote in message
...
Surprised not to see a thread here yet. See
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-is-waging-war
-on-our-citys-subversive-south.do or http://snipurl.com/ubl23.

I don't entirely go along with Jenkins' thesis and note he gave a closure
period for Albert Bridge at variance with the photo attached to his
article (presumably an editorial rather than his cock-up). However, he has
a bit of a point, doesn't he?

--
Colin Rosenstiel (born and bred in South London)


Couldn't have put it better myself. Apart from the South Circular being a
national joke - I expect most "strangers" look at the map and see the thick
red line round south London and think "that's all right then". In fact of
course, it is designed only for south Londoners who know the area intimately
and can handle the back streets, one way systems, endless traffic lights and
right angle bends which form part of its charm!

Actually, I consider Cannon St and Charing Cross part of south London. It's
only after I leave the station that it all looks a bit foreign!

MaxB

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

On Feb 10, 1:23*am, wrote:
Surprised not to see a thread here yet. See [...]
http://snipurl.com/ubl23.

I don't entirely go along with Jenkins' thesis and note he gave a closure
period for Albert Bridge at variance with the photo attached to his
article (presumably an editorial rather than his cock-up). However, he has
a bit of a point, doesn't he?

I don't think a demi-jocular Jenkins spiel really qualifies as
containing a thesis really! Likely not mentioned here because, unlike
what Mr Jenkins might like one to think, Londoners do not hang off
every work he says - I hadn't seen it before you linked to it.

It's worth noting that the Mayor/TfL doesn't have any direct
responsibility for any bridges over the Thames in London (at least I
don't think so) - they're the responsibility of a others, such as the
councils, Bridge House Estates, or the PLA in the case of Richmond
footbridge.

That said, obviously any works are obviously going to planned in
consultation with TfL, which is the highway and traffic authority for
strategic roads in the capital. I note in the case of both the
Hammersmith and Albert bridge works that TfL is also involved in
helping to find the works.

* Hammersmith Bridge general works information from LB Hammersmith &
Fulham, who have responsibility for this bridge:
http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/New...ork_begins.asp

* A more detailed leaflet (found via google search) on the Hammersmith
Bridge closures, which makes clear the TfL involvement (n.b. PDF):
http://www.citizenspace.com/local/lb...mithBridge.pdf
or via http://tinyurl.com/ydfhqgy

* Albert Bridge closure info from RB Kensington & Chelsea, who have
responsibility for this bridge (see the link to the "Key Decision"
page, which makes clear the TfL funding element):
http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/newsroom/coun...geclosure.aspx
or via http://tinyurl.com/y9vhw7o

Dunno what's happening on the southern approach to Battersea Bridge -
a quick glance at the 'LondonWorks' site didn't elicit anything
obvious - by the way the URL for that is http://
public.londonworks.gov.uk so others can have a rummage themselves.

I think TfL might have some more direct involvement in the Waterloo
Bridge works, not really sure - nothing immediately obvious on either
City of Westminster and LB Lambeth websites (I assume the bridge is
the responsibility of Westminster council not LB Lambeth though, but I
don't know).

And when Jenkins says "And anyone who thinks they can sneak round east
will find Blackwall Tunnel closed southbound indefinitely" he's
talking total balderdash. The tunnel - for which TfL is directly
responsible - is going to be closed to southbound traffic *overnight*
for works until the end of 2012 (it'll remain open to northbound
traffic). And it'll be open to southbound traffic during the day.

The blurb on the TfL website is a bit unclear but seems to suggest
that there'll be some occasional all-weekend closures for southbound
traffic too (it could be read as saying that the tunnel will be
entirely closed - i.e. both bores - but I don't think that's the case)
- see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...mes/14072.aspx

(It's worth noting the potential for confusion here - the works are
actually being done on the northbound bore - i.e. the original
Victorian tunnel - but n/b traffic will be diverted to go through the
southbound bore, and s/b traffic will have to make its own way across
the river elsewhere. This makes sense as it's preferable to divert and
disperse the s/b traffic across multiple routes - e.g. along the A13
and over the Dartford Bridge, which is now free at night, in addition
to the central London bridges and the Rotherhithe Tunnel - than ending
up with gridlock south of the river around Greenwich/ Deptford etc.)

What Simon hasn't done is question whether the routine Rotherhithe
Tunnel closures will continue during the Blackwall Tunnel works - but
given that they're routine (i.e. necessary) I assume they will,
because they have to. Must admit I'm a bit hazy about what night(s)
this happens on.

Given that he was doing an all-London round up of river crossings, he
also failed to mention the upcoming closure of Greenwich Foot Tunnel
for upgrade works. Nor did he link in the regular Jubilee line weekend
closures, which work to frustrate cross-river journeys in the east.
I'm wondering whether Mr Jenkins might be a Battersea or Clapham
resident!

Anyway, enough babble from me.

Oh, and south London rules OK!

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

Mizter T wrote:

I note in the case of both the
Hammersmith and Albert bridge works that TfL is also involved in
helping to find the works.

Although bridges are generally fairly easy to find... a single mechanical
failure can't cause them to end up on Goodwin Sands, unlike certain other
forms of river crossing...

And when Jenkins says "And anyone who thinks they can sneak round east
will find Blackwall Tunnel closed southbound indefinitely" he's
talking total balderdash. The tunnel - for which TfL is directly
responsible - is going to be closed to southbound traffic *overnight*
for works until the end of 2012 (it'll remain open to northbound
traffic).

Does anyone know if the Monday night closures of Rotherhithe Tunnel are
still going on?

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

On Feb 10, 3:55*pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

I note in the case of both the
Hammersmith and Albert bridge works that TfL is also involved in
helping to find the works.

Although bridges are generally fairly easy to find... a single mechanical
failure can't cause them to end up on Goodwin Sands, unlike certain other
forms of river crossing...

The curse of the typo! TfL are of course helping to fund the works...
it's all about the dosh.


And when Jenkins says "And anyone who thinks they can sneak round east
will find Blackwall Tunnel closed southbound indefinitely" he's
talking total balderdash. The tunnel - for which TfL is directly
responsible - is going to be closed to southbound traffic *overnight*
for works until the end of 2012 (it'll remain open to northbound
traffic).

Does anyone know if the Monday night closures of Rotherhithe Tunnel are
still going on?

Don't know. For a while I've thought it somewhat ridiculous that there
doesn't appear to be any information on the web about when the routine
maintenance closures of the Rotherhithe and Blackwall tunnels take
place - the whole issue seems shrouded in mystery! There's nowt on the
TfL website including the live traffic news bit, nowt on the BBC
London Travel pages, nowt anywhere else either.

TfL should have a simple 'river crossings' page with info about
planned works on the two tunnels, plus perhaps info about one boat (or
no boat) service on the Woolwich Ferry - I suppose ideally it should
have live travel news too (e.g. 'one boat service for the rest of the
day' etc). And this info should be available via the WAP site too (I
guess there might be safety concerns about people checking it whilst
driving, but the live BBC Travel news service is offered on the BBC
WAP site).

I did once call up the TfL travel info line (7222 1234 as was, when
one could call it from a mobile without paying through the nose [1])
and the helpful gent on the end went to great lengths to try and
decipher whether or not the Blackwall tunnel was closed, looking at
bus service info and the 'jam cams', but ultimately he couldn't say
one way or the other for sure (and I didn't try in the end so never
found out).

By the by, whilst on the subject of the Rotherhithe Tunnel, it's now
the responsibility of TfL, but has it always been thus since the
creation of TfL in 2000? I've half a recollection of seeing signs
suggesting that LB Tower Hamlets was responsible for it more recently
than ten years ago. Doesn't really matter of course, just curiosity.

-----
[1] The old telephone number does still works for the moment, but
eventually everyone will have to call the 0843 number (which costs 20p/
min on contract o2 tariffs for example) but this is all a different
thread.

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

For a while I've thought it somewhat ridiculous that there
doesn't appear to be any information on the web about when the routine
maintenance closures of the Rotherhithe and Blackwall tunnels take
place - the whole issue seems shrouded in mystery!

www.blackwalltunnel.com
and
www.rotherhithetunnel.com
are unofficial but very helpful.
--
Paul Terry

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

Mizter T wrote:

TfL should have a simple 'river crossings' page with info about
planned works on the two tunnels, plus perhaps info about one boat (or
no boat) service on the Woolwich Ferry -

What's so special about the river? The same page should also list daily
closure of Oxford Street, nightly closure of Hyde Park, weekly closures of
Constitution Hill, Hoxton Street, Middlesex Street etc.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

On Feb 10, 5:30*pm, Paul Terry wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

For a while I've thought it somewhat ridiculous that there
doesn't appear to be any information on the web about when the routine
maintenance closures of the Rotherhithe and Blackwall tunnels take
place - the whole issue seems shrouded in mystery!

www.blackwalltunnel.com
and
www.rotherhithetunnel.com
are unofficial but very helpful.

Excellent, thanks.

Actually, they look kinda familiar, I think I've come across them
before but obviously subsequently forgot about them - d'oh!

On the Rotherhithe tunnel website I note this re the weekly closures
regime:
---quote---
Due to the Blackwall Tunnel refurbishment programme, the weekly
maintenance closure of the Rotherhithe tunnel has been moved to 00:00
to 08:00 on Saturday morning to ensure that it does not clash with the
refurbishment closures.
---/quote---

Blackwall tunnel is open to southbound traffic all Friday night (i.e.
it's the one 'day off' a week from it being closed).

Simon Jenkins on Sarf Lunnon in the Standard
 

On Feb 10, 3:32*pm, Mizter T wrote:

It's worth noting that the Mayor/TfL doesn't have any direct
responsibility for any bridges over the Thames in London (at least I
don't think so) - they're the responsibility of a others, such as the
councils, Bridge House Estates, or the PLA in the case of Richmond
footbridge.

Oh yes they do! TfL owns (and is therefore responsible for the
structure of) Richmond, Kew, Chiswick, Battersea, Vauxhall, Lambeth
and Westminster bridges. While Blackfriars, London and Tower bridges
have Red Routes running over them and TfL is responsible for the road
surface, although the bridge structures themselves are the
responsibility of the City of London’s Bridge House Estates.

Oh, and south London rules OK!

Agreed.

Peter