Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

Afternoon all,

Here is a story which my housemate just told me.

He arrived at Heathrow by aeroplane at 2230 last night (friday). He'd
previously booked a minicab (from Network Cars of Crouch End, for the
benefit of anyone googling that firm in future) to pick him up and bring
him home to Finsbury Park. He'd been quoted a price of 40 pounds.

(Why he didn't just get the Piccadilly line, i don't know - i suppose
because he could expense a taxi, and preferred that to schlepping his
luggage through the tube.)

A colleague of his was flying with him, and lives near us, so they decided
to share the taxi.

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one person,
and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two of them. My
housemate asked him to check this with his controller, and after radioing
in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10 pounds extra, at 50
pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the tube.
My housemate still took the taxi.

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to Finsbury
Park would cost?

tom

--
My mother always said that democracy is the best revenge - Bilawal
Bhutto Zardari

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message . li, Tom
Anderson writes

Here is a story which my housemate just told me.

He arrived at Heathrow by aeroplane at 2230 last night (friday). He'd
previously booked a minicab (from Network Cars of Crouch End, for the
benefit of anyone googling that firm in future) to pick him up and
bring him home to Finsbury Park. He'd been quoted a price of 40 pounds.

(Why he didn't just get the Piccadilly line, i don't know - i suppose
because he could expense a taxi, and preferred that to schlepping his
luggage through the tube.)

A colleague of his was flying with him, and lives near us, so they
decided to share the taxi.

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one
person, and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two of
them. My housemate asked him to check this with his controller, and
after radioing in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10 pounds
extra, at 50 pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the
tube. My housemate still took the taxi.

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was
this a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up anyone
who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only one
passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to the
operator and have the booking changed to two people. Some companies
don't charge for this, but many do. In this particular case, he'd be
aware that someone else was going to lose a good fare from Heathrow to
Crouch End for the other passenger. £10 seems reasonable to me, although
certainly not £40.

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to
Finsbury Park would cost?

At least £70.
--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

Tom Anderson wrote:

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one
person, and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two
of them. My housemate asked him to check this with his controller,
and after radioing in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10
pounds extra, at 50 pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the
tube. My housemate still took the taxi.

"minicab".

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance,

While it's probably possible to license a two-seater car as a minicab, which
would then be only insured to carry one passenger, this is unlikely to be
the case here. It's certainly not possible that paying extra money would
solve any problem.

or was this a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Barefaced attempt at a scam. Similar things frequently happen going towards
the airport, when the minicabs rely on people not wanting to miss their
flight, having no time to make alternative arrangements and leaving the
country. The foreigners ask the hotel for a "taxi" for four people - they
are told it will be 50 quid - they say fine, because the black cab they took
from the airport cost 60 quid - when it shows up it's 50 quid per person -
40 quid ends up going into the pocket of the hotel concierge. I have no idea
why this is legal when it is not legal for taxi drivers to behave like
this - the assumption that market forces will keep minicab companies in
check clearly does not work in this sort of situation.

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to
Finsbury Park would cost?

70-75 pounds at that time of night, less during the day. Taximeters work on
the assumption that the driver will have to return empty, which in the
provinces and suburbs is nearly always true. The minicab company will
usually tie up a trip to the airport with a trip back from the airport, and
will be using a cheaper vehicle and so should be charging around half the
metered fare. Suburb to suburb minicab trips usually cost a similar amount
to the metered taxi fare, because the opportunity to also get paid for the
return journey is not there - but can easily cost two or three times as much
as a black cab if they "see you coming".

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message . li, at
13:40:37 on Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Tom Anderson
remarked:
Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was
this a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Sounds 99% likely to be a scam. I've never heard of such a thing.

Did get a surprise in the Middle East recently - the client ordered a
"car" from the airport to the hotel, and it turned out to be a minibus.
And the fare they had quoted was therefore per person not per trip.
That's the first time I was caught out like that - although it wouldn't
normally matter, I'd met a colleague on the plane and offered them a
ride to the hotel, which turned out not to be "free" after all!

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to
Finsbury Park would cost?

It's about 36km. At that time of night, the first 9.4km will cost £24.20
(including Heathrow supplement) the remaining approx 27km at 20p/100m or
£54 so a total of about £78.

--
Roland Perry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up anyone
who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only one
passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to the
operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing? I never get asked
how many people are involved when I book a private hire car outside
London, and if they had ever refused to take my wife with me I'd
certainly have noticed!
--
Roland Perry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.
--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message , at 17:31:54 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without me
first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).
--
Roland Perry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On 20 Feb, 17:31, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.
I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.


So how is that resolved by asking for more money?

Surely taking the extra person for free would not be touting, but
charging extra would be.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 20, 5:31*pm, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.
I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.

Sorry Paul but I have never come across a minicab firm in London that
demands to know how exactly many passengers are being picked up for a
normal booking - obviously if it's five or more people then you're
into booking a people carrier territory, that or two minicabs, but
never has the minicab office wanted to know whether it was one, two,
three or four passengers. Nor have I ever come across a minicab that
has turned up and refused passengers because there's too many
passengers (if the number of passengers is higher than one but no more
than four, of course). Minicab firms book "cars" (i.e. carloads) , not
individual passengers.

I really don't think it could possibly count as "plying for trade"
when a minicab picks up three passengers instead of two. Nor does
picking up someone else en route count either i.e. someone else known
to the existing passengers. All sorts of completely normal
arrangements would be considered null and void under your above
reading of the rules.

The whole anti-"plying for trade" rule is about prohibiting minicab
drivers from roaming the streets looking for a non-booked job - i.e.
those minicab drivers milling around outside a club or bar at kicking
out time, or those who do slow drive-bys next to night bus stops
trying to pick up a fare. Both of which still happen.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 20, 1:40*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Afternoon all,

Here is a story which my housemate just told me.

He arrived at Heathrow by aeroplane at 2230 last night (friday). He'd
previously booked a minicab (from Network Cars of Crouch End, for the
benefit of anyone googling that firm in future) to pick him up and bring
him home to Finsbury Park. He'd been quoted a price of 40 pounds.

(Why he didn't just get the Piccadilly line, i don't know - i suppose
because he could expense a taxi, and preferred that to schlepping his
luggage through the tube.)

A colleague of his was flying with him, and lives near us, so they decided
to share the taxi.

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one person,
and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two of them. My
housemate asked him to check this with his controller, and after radioing
in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10 pounds extra, at 50
pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the tube.
My housemate still took the taxi.

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Absolute total horse****, of course. Sounds like they're a firm to
avoid. Interesting to note the discrepancy between the drivers idea of
an achievable scam, i.e. double money, and the controllers slightly
less outrageous notion of an extra tenner on top - would the driver
have to split it with the controller later on for going along with it
all I wonder?

Good on the colleague for telling him to get stuffed. No-one should
stand for such nonsense. Always a good idea to agree a price
beforehand with control and also then with the driver, and have none
of it if they try and bump it up somehow.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

*Subject:* Taxi insurance for multiple people?
*From:* Paul Terry
*Date:* Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:31:54 +0000

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on
Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to
his private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he
picked-up anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in
point, where only one passenger had been booked, it would be
necessary to get back to the operator and have the booking
changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The
Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance
for drivers and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted
and their PHV driver_s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably
only booked for one person.

That's no more plying for hire or touting in London as outside. The law is
the same in effect. I am assuming that the arrangement to share was made
by the person who made the booking before communicating with the driver.

The fact that the extra passenger wasn't going to the same destination
would probably justify a different fare, though, if it involved a detour,
for example.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party"
without me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a
car full).

Of course they can.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

Sorry Paul but I have never come across a minicab firm in London that
demands to know how exactly many passengers are being picked up for a
normal booking

They always ask me how many passengers, if only in order to send the
appropriate size of vehicle. They also usually ask if there's a lot of
luggage (in which case they send an estate or MPV), if any child seats
are needed, and so on.

Almost all WWW booking forms for private hire similarly ask for these
details.

However, I'm merely quoting above what TfL say about unbooked
passengers, and commenting that the driver probably used this as an
excuse for bumping up the fare. It certainly wouldn't have been because
of an insurance issue, as he claimed.

Minicab firms book "cars" (i.e. carloads) , not individual passengers.

They need to know more detail than you imply, especially on airport runs
- it's not just the number of passengers, but also whether there are
particular needs (such as child seats, disabled access, or a guide dog),
large amounts of luggage, difficult items to transport (e.g. skis) and
so on. Most web booking forms ask for these details, but what an
operator asks for on the phone is up to him or her.

I really don't think it could possibly count as "plying for trade"
when a minicab picks up three passengers instead of two.

I agree. As I said earlier I think the driver was simply using the
licence regulations (described as "insurance") as an excuse for bumping
up the agreed fare. It would have been more honest to say something like
"We charge extra for each unbooked passenger" (or each extra drop-off
point, if that is what was actually involved).

--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message , at 17:41:32
on Sat, 20 Feb 2010, remarked:
So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party"
without me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a
car full).

Of course they can.

So Paul Terry seems somewhat outvoted on this issue.
--
Roland Perry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message , Roland Perry
writes

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without
me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).

It's entirely up to the operator how they take the booking. Almost all
WWW booking forms ask for the number of passengers along with a mountain
of other details. Telephone operators may or may not ask for such
information.

However, if a company is willing to take a booking for just "a car to
Heathrow" without the knowledge that there are five passengers, two of
whom require child seats and one of whom is disabled, and that there is
a wheelchair, eight large suitcases, two pairs of skis, a double bass
and a guide dog among the party, everyone is going to be disappointed if
a Ford Escort turns up for the job.

So Paul Terry seems somewhat outvoted on this issue.

I don't mind being outvoted in the slightest, but it was not me that
wrote "PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire" ... it was TfL.

As I said, I think the driver concerned was just using this as an excuse
to bump up the fare. However, there is no regulation of the fares
charged for private hire - operators can set whatever conditions they
wish.

--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message

In message , Roland Perry
writes

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without
me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).

It's entirely up to the operator how they take the booking. Almost all
WWW booking forms ask for the number of passengers along with a
mountain of other details. Telephone operators may or may not ask for
such information.

However, if a company is willing to take a booking for just "a car to
Heathrow" without the knowledge that there are five passengers, two of
whom require child seats and one of whom is disabled, and that there
is a wheelchair, eight large suitcases, two pairs of skis, a double
bass and a guide dog among the party, everyone is going to be
disappointed if a Ford Escort turns up for the job.

Given that the Ford Escort went out of production in 2000, I think even
a group of two passengers might be disappointed if a shabby, 10+ year
old small car turns up to collect them.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:40:37 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

The latter, I'd think. Not unusual in the taxi industry, IMX.

Taxi fares may well include an extra sum for an extra passenger, but
normally this is a small amount, and has nothing whatsoever to do with
insurance - the driver is licenced and insured to carry the number of
people stated on their plate.

That said, there's nothing saying that a minicab firm cannot have a
fares structure that charges the same amount for each passenger, but
I've never come across one. And I've never been asked to specify the
number of passengers when booking one, other than when I asked for a
minibus once.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:18:37 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote:

However, if a company is willing to take a booking for just "a car to
Heathrow" without the knowledge that there are five passengers, two of
whom require child seats and one of whom is disabled, and that there is
a wheelchair, eight large suitcases, two pairs of skis, a double bass
and a guide dog among the party, everyone is going to be disappointed if
a Ford Escort turns up for the job.

I don't think I ever saw an Escort as a taxi. But I would say it's
generally down to the passenger to say when booking if a fairly
standard-sized saloon car won't do, as that's what you generally get
if you don't specify anything else.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 21, 7:58*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:40:37 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:
Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

The latter, I'd think. *Not unusual in the taxi industry, IMX.

Taxi fares may well include an extra sum for an extra passenger, but
normally this is a small amount, and has nothing whatsoever to do with
insurance - the driver is licenced and insured to carry the number of
people stated on their plate.

London minicabs don't have these plates - instead (if they're
licensed) they display a diamond-in-circle licence in the front
windscreen and back window as can be seen he

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/resources/corp...le-licence.jpg
or via http://tinyurl.com/TfL-Private-Hire-licence

The licence stickers do show how many passengers the vehicle is
permitted to carry, but the text of that is rather small - though to
be fair, it's normally pretty obvious how many passengers are allowed,
as it's the number of seats!

Additionally many minicabs will also have a more obvious TfL "Private
Hire" roundel (grey with blue bar) on display too, which allows them
to pick up and set down passengers on red routes - this is shown in
diagrammatic form on this TfL webpage (can't immediately find a photo
on the web):

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpar..._fix_the_signs
or via http://tinyurl.com/TfL-PHV-red-route-sticker

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Feb 20, 1:40*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Absolute total horse****, of course.

What i reckoned. Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I will try to
persuade the housemate to make a complaint, but i doubt he can be
bothered.

tom

--
Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu | Jimbo Wales |
Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco -- Uncyclopedia

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

Tom Anderson wrote:

I will try to persuade the housemate to make a complaint,
but i doubt he can be bothered.

Minicab fares are not controlled, so there is no-one you can complain to who
will care. A letter to the local paper might hit the company in the pocket,
but the minicab company knows where your friend lives and how to break
windows.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 22, 2:05*am, Mizter T wrote:

Additionally many minicabs will also have a more obvious TfL "Private
Hire" roundel (grey with blue bar) on display too, which allows them
to pick up and set down passengers on red routes - this is shown in
diagrammatic form on this TfL webpage (can't immediately find a photo
on the web):

I wondered what those were for - thanks.

Though I don't understand why anyone - taxi, private hire, car, lorry
or anything, should be stopping on a Red Route other than in a
designated parking bay, as that negates the whole point of *having* a
Red Route in the first place.

Neil

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 22, 2:05 am, Mizter T wrote:

Additionally many minicabs will also have a more obvious TfL "Private
Hire" roundel (grey with blue bar) on display too, which allows them
to pick up and set down passengers on red routes - this is shown in
diagrammatic form on this TfL webpage (can't immediately find a photo
on the web):

I wondered what those were for - thanks.

Though I don't understand why anyone - taxi, private hire, car, lorry
or anything, should be stopping on a Red Route other than in a
designated parking bay, as that negates the whole point of *having* a
Red Route in the first place.

And yet London's traffic basically works, on the whole. Junctions tend to be
the pinch points.

Taxis need to be hailable on red routes - without that, London would become,
in tourists' eyes, the only city in the world where the taxis would always
sail past and never pick you up. The huge number of one-way roads and banned
turns mean that a taxi pulling around a corner from a red route to pick
someone up might be putting the fare up by a fiver - it would significantly
reducing the capacity of the fleet to carry people home at busy times. Taxis
setting down on red routes is harder to justify.

Since minicabs are only supposed to perform pre-booked journeys, I see
little justification for allowing them to pick up on red routes, because
finding the right person, checking they are the right person and
reprogramming the satnav takes so much longer than someone hailing a taxi,
saying where they are going and zooming away.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 26, 2:03*pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Taxis need to be hailable on red routes - without that, London would become,
in tourists' eyes, the only city in the world where the taxis would always
sail past and never pick you up. The huge number of one-way roads and banned
turns mean that a taxi pulling around a corner from a red route to pick
someone up might be putting the fare up by a fiver - it would significantly
reducing the capacity of the fleet to carry people home at busy times. Taxis
setting down on red routes is harder to justify.

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Neil

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 26, 4:33*pm, Neil Williams wrote:

On Feb 26, 2:03*pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:
Taxis need to be hailable on red routes - without that, London would become,
in tourists' eyes, the only city in the world where the taxis would always
sail past and never pick you up. The huge number of one-way roads and banned
turns mean that a taxi pulling around a corner from a red route to pick
someone up might be putting the fare up by a fiver - it would significantly
reducing the capacity of the fleet to carry people home at busy times. Taxis
setting down on red routes is harder to justify.

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. *Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I should get round to offer the counterpoint to the above, if only to
balance things out.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. *Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I should get round to offer the counterpoint to the above, if only to
balance things out.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message
,
Neil Williams writes

Another way of reducing the impact of this might perhaps be for taxis
to accept Oyster PAYG?

"Oi guv', you'll need an OEP if you wanna go sarf of the river" ...
--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 26, 2:03 pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Taxis need to be hailable on red routes - without that, London would
become, in tourists' eyes, the only city in the world where the
taxis would always sail past and never pick you up. The huge number
of one-way roads and banned turns mean that a taxi pulling around a
corner from a red route to pick someone up might be putting the fare
up by a fiver - it would significantly reducing the capacity of the
fleet to carry people home at busy times. Taxis setting down on red
routes is harder to justify.

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

That'd work well - as long as the card has enough cash loaded for those
journeys from Heathrow discussed up thread, with some change left over.

£100 should do it...

Paul S

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 26, 6:30*pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:

Mizter T writes

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I should get round to offer the counterpoint to the above, if only to
balance things out.

(A somewhat clumsy sentence on my part, but YKWIM).


I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

I wasn't suggesting they would be.


Apples and Oranges innit?

I'm totally aware of the difference (I be a Londoner after all!), and
wasn't confusing them together, though I see that what I wrote may
have successfully confused nonetheless!

I was thinking that the suggestion was perhaps to give both Taxi *and*
minicab drivers the ability to take payment by Oyster PAYG - but
thinking and reading it through again, given 'Basi Jet' and Neil were
discussing stopping on red routes and were in apparent agreement that
minicabs needn't have this right, I suppose Neil was only thinking
about black cabs (proper Taxis, whatever you want to call them).

FWIW I think there is an argument in favour of letting minicabs stop
on red routes (i.e. what is currently allowed), though the best place
for me to put it forward would be in response to Basil Jet's post
upthread.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On 26.02.10 18:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I should get round to offer the counterpoint to the above, if only to
balance things out.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?

Some Taxi drivers themselves are extremely shifty.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, wrote:

On 26.02.10 18:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there is a
financial transaction to perform. Another way of reducing the impact
of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I should get round to offer the counterpoint to the above, if only to
balance things out.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?

Some Taxi drivers themselves are extremely shifty.

Not the ones who drive automatics, though.

tom

--
Nothing endures but change. -- Heraclitus

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Feb 27, 2:01*am, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, wrote:

On 26.02.10 18:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

Mizter T writes

Agreed to some extent, as setting down is so much slower as there
is a financial transaction to perform. *Another way of reducing the
impact of this might perhaps be for taxis to accept Oyster PAYG?

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I should get round to offer the counterpoint to the above, if only to
balance things out.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?

Some Taxi drivers themselves are extremely shifty.

Not the ones who drive automatics, though.

Very good - and indeed most drive automatics I believe. So how many
shifty Taxi drivers are there out there?

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

black cabs (proper Taxis, whatever you want to call them).

ITYM "Hackney Carriages". HTH, HAND, etc.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message , Ian Jelf
writes

In message . li, Tom
Anderson writes

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, wrote:

On 26.02.10 18:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
Some Taxi drivers themselves are extremely shifty.

Not the ones who drive automatics, though.

Can we now expect a clutch of comments like this?

I had hoped the topic was exhausted ...
--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Ian Jelf
writes

In message . li, Tom
Anderson writes

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, wrote:

On 26.02.10 18:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
Some Taxi drivers themselves are extremely shifty.

Not the ones who drive automatics, though.

Can we now expect a clutch of comments like this?

I had hoped the topic was exhausted ...

Nah, not even out of first gear yet...
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change jealous to sad to reply.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:55:42 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

Err, see what started this thread - giving shifty minicab drivers the
ability to devour your Oyster PAYG credit probably ain't a winning
idea.

I was referring more to black cab drivers.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:30:12 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?

It can be elsewhere as well. In Milton Keynes, I find that there are
far more "bad apples" among the hackney carriage drivers[1] than the
private hire ones.

[1] By no means all, by no means even the majority. But it does seem
that if you get in a hackney carriage late at night from the centre
that you have to insist on the use of the meter, and some even refuse
then. During the day they seem to be fine, though, and while the
private hire cars don't use meters, the fares are extremely consistent
(I think they're zonal, but I'm not sure).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:30:12 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?

It can be elsewhere as well. In Milton Keynes, I find that there are
far more "bad apples" among the hackney carriage drivers[1] than the
private hire ones.

[1] By no means all, by no means even the majority. But it does seem
that if you get in a hackney carriage late at night from the centre
that you have to insist on the use of the meter, and some even refuse
then. During the day they seem to be fine, though, and while the
private hire cars don't use meters, the fares are extremely consistent
(I think they're zonal, but I'm not sure).

Interesting. In Cambridge they all use the meter for journeys within the
City. But then most taxi firms also operate hire cars.

Refusing to use the meter within the Borough boundary is a criminal
offence and should be reported to the police. Take the cab and driver's
badge numbers.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message ,
writes

Interesting. In Cambridge they all use the meter for journeys within the
City. But then most taxi firms also operate hire cars.

Refusing to use the meter within the Borough boundary is a criminal
offence and should be reported to the police. Take the cab and driver's
badge numbers.

Whereas in London it is an offence for a licensed PHV to be fitted with
a meter.

--
Paul Terry

Taxi insurance for multiple people?
 

In message ,
writes
In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:30:12 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out that a Taxi driver
isn't a 'shifty minicab driver'.

Apples and Oranges innit?

It can be elsewhere as well. In Milton Keynes, I find that there are
far more "bad apples" among the hackney carriage drivers[1] than the
private hire ones.

[1] By no means all, by no means even the majority. But it does seem
that if you get in a hackney carriage late at night from the centre
that you have to insist on the use of the meter, and some even refuse
then. During the day they seem to be fine, though, and while the
private hire cars don't use meters, the fares are extremely consistent
(I think they're zonal, but I'm not sure).

Interesting. In Cambridge they all use the meter for journeys within the
City. But then most taxi firms also operate hire cars.

Refusing to use the meter within the Borough boundary is a criminal
offence and should be reported to the police. Take the cab and driver's
badge numbers.

Not strictly true. You can agree a fare *lower* than the maximum
permitted on the fare chart and they would not have to put the meter on.
Having said that how could you prove that the agreed fare is lower
unless you put the meter on?

In practice what happens in the (rare?) cases that such an agreement is
reached most drivers (at least in London) will run the meter up to the
agreed amount then stop it. They will then continue the journey with the
meter not set - all perfectly legal.

(I do this in the early hours of the morning if I get someone who wants
to go to Heathrow at around the same time I want to go home, offering
them a discount off the normal fare. I then stop the meter and take a
print out which records the start time, finish time, distance travelled
and the fare. That is my proof of what was on the meter?

Some drivers are not so honest. This does seem to be more prevalent
outside London as getting a badge doesn't take 3 years and isn't valued
by the drivers as much.

--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England
Interested in American trains real and model?
Look here http://mikehughes627.fotopic.net/