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LT card validity on suburban rail
Hi,
TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. Thanks, tom -- Demolish serious culture! |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:01:28 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote: Hi, TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. Thanks, tom It's only valid on NR services where they parallel Underground routes, such as Richmond - Gunnersbury and Barking - Upminster, so they are not valid throughout Silverlink. Student LT Cards have identical validities to the day ones. |
LT card validity on suburban rail
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LT card validity on suburban rail
wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: Hi, TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. It's only valid on NR services where they parallel Underground routes, such as Richmond - Gunnersbury and Barking - Upminster, Upminster - Fenchurch Street, in fact. Also Stratford - Liverpool Street and, IIRC, Kings Cross - Finsbury Park. OTOH, I believe LT Cards are not valid on either National Rail or the Bakerloo Line where they share the same tracks up to Harrow & Wealdstone. Fares on this section are set by National Rail, not LU. Chris |
LT card validity on suburban rail
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message ... Hi, TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. The full list of NR service on which LT cards are valid a Amersham - Marylebone Finsbury Park - King's Cross/Moorgate Kentish Town - Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge Kenton - Euston (not at Kilburn High Road or South Hampstead) Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (not at any intermediate stations) Richmond - Gunnersbury Stratford - Custom House Stratford - Liverpool Street Upminster - Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street West Ruislip - South Ruislip Peter Smyth |
LT card validity on suburban rail
I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a
chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. If you go to TfL's website and select Fares and Tickets from the menu you are taken to a page that immediately mentions a leaflet (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf) that you can download, and that is where you can find the information. TfL's website is a bit annoying like that. Peter Smyth has already given the list though :) |
LT card validity on suburban rail
Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
Hi, TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf on page 18 has the full list of National Rail services for which LU tickets (including LT Cards) are valid. -- sandy |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Graham J wrote:
I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. If you go to TfL's website and select Fares and Tickets from the menu you are taken to a page that immediately mentions a leaflet (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf) that you can download, and that is where you can find the information. Aaha! TfL's website is a bit annoying like that. It is. Thanks for the pointer. Peter Smyth has already given the list though :) Thankyou Mr Smyth! tom -- NTK now entirely filled with google links -- NTK |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:55:34 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It's only valid on NR services where they parallel Underground routes, such as Richmond - Gunnersbury and Barking - Upminster, so they are not valid throughout Silverlink. Student LT Cards have identical validities to the day ones. AIUI, it's only valid on NR services where the fares are controlled by LUL. It is *not* valid on the Bakerloo (National Rail *or* tube) between somewhere I can't recall and Harrow & Wealdstone, because Silverlink set the fares for that section. Okay, that sort of makes sense of it all. TBH, it seems to be a bit of an anachronism, and could probably do with being abolished in favour of the Peak Day travelcard and normal Travelcard seasons. Yes. I understand that this is impossible because the surface rail operators won't agree; incidentally, they also don't want to give a young person's railcard discount on their seasons (at least, the one i want to buy), as otherwise they could probably just be persuaded that an LT student photocard counts as one (or vice versa). Anyway, whinge whinge etc. tom -- NTK now entirely filled with google links -- NTK |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:22:30 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote: When did this last change? The thing is, when i started being a student in London, a few months ago, there was a big story in a student paper about how our Great Helmsman, Mr Livingstone, had changed the rules in such a way to make the LT card more use to people living in northeast London. Did i imagine that? The current list of interavailable routes (sourced from the September issue of the National Rail Fares Manuals) is as follows: + Amersham–Marylebone + Finsbury Park–Kings Cross + Finsbury Park–Moorgate and intermediately + Liverpool Street–Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central (and intermediately) + Gunnersbury–Richmond + Harrow & Wealdstone–Queens Park + Kentish Town–St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink/Farringdon/Moorgate/Blackfriars/London Bridge/Elephant & Castle + Kenton–Euston (but not joining or alighting at Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead) + Stratford–Liverpool Street + Stratford–Custom House + Upminster–Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street (but not joining or alighting at Forest Gate & Maryland) HTH, Barry -- Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce! DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the views of my employers. |
LT card validity on suburban rail
"Barry Salter" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:22:30 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote: When did this last change? The thing is, when i started being a student in London, a few months ago, there was a big story in a student paper about how our Great Helmsman, Mr Livingstone, had changed the rules in such a way to make the LT card more use to people living in northeast London. Did i imagine that? The current list of interavailable routes (sourced from the September issue of the National Rail Fares Manuals) is as follows: + Amersham–Marylebone + Finsbury Park–Kings Cross + Finsbury Park–Moorgate and intermediately + Liverpool Street–Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central (and intermediately) + Gunnersbury–Richmond + Harrow & Wealdstone–Queens Park + Kentish Town–St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink/Farringdon/Moorgate/Blackfriars/London Bridge/Elephant & Castle + Kenton–Euston (but not joining or alighting at Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead) + Stratford–Liverpool Street + Stratford–Custom House + Upminster–Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street (but not joining or alighting at Forest Gate & Maryland) There seems to be some confusion between different sources about exactly what routes are allowed. National Fares Manual page L4 which you quote allows Liv St - SS/TH/WC and all intermediate stations + H&W-QP and Kenton-Euston (which presumably is intended to imply you can't use the non-stop trains from H&W - Euston). Page K1.2 about the Youth LT card does not mention the Liverpool Street routes at all and gives Kenton-Queens Park only. Page K1.4 about the One Day LT card also does not mention Liv St routes but gives Kenton-Euston. Finally to complete the confusion http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf lists Liv St - SS/TH/WC but NOT at intermediate stations and Kenton-Euston |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Peter Smyth wrote:
"Barry Salter" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:22:30 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote: there was a big story in a student paper about how our Great Helmsman, Mr Livingstone, had changed the rules in such a way to make the LT card more use to people living in northeast London. The current list of interavailable routes (sourced from the September issue of the National Rail Fares Manuals) is as follows: [snip] + Liverpool Street–Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central (and intermediately) That's the bunny! National Fares Manual page L4 which you quote allows Liv St - SS/TH/WC and all intermediate stations [snip] Finally to complete the confusion http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf lists Liv St - SS/TH/WC but NOT at intermediate stations So, national rail (and so WAGN) will let me use my LT card on the train, but TfL won't. Well, since it's WAGN who actually operate the train, i reckon it's worth a try. Provided, of course, that i can escape from the tube station without being caught - possibly using a tunnel of some sort ("For you, Tommy, ze journey is over!"). tom -- We start here and head south. |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:39:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote: So, national rail (and so WAGN) will let me use my LT card on the train, but TfL won't. Well, since it's WAGN who actually operate the train, i reckon it's worth a try. Provided, of course, that i can escape from the tube station without being caught - possibly using a tunnel of some sort ("For you, Tommy, ze journey is over!"). This change was, in fact, made back in March, as follows: quote LT Tickets are valid on train operating company services over the following sections: Liverpool Street-Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central These amendments begin to integrate fares pricing on West Anglia routes from the Victoria Line south with the London Underground zonal pricing structure. This simplifies the journey experience for the passenger by providing a greater level of travel opportunities. Examples: An LT Card is valid for a journey between Liverpool Street and Walthamstow Central on West Anglia services. A zone U12 underground ticket issued at Oxford Circus is valid on West Anglia services to Clapton. (Gates at Liverpool Street have been programmed to allow such a journey opportunity). A Seven Sisters to Zone U123 single is valid either by Victoria Line or West Anglia services to Liverpool Street. Fares to 'London Terminals' will, over time match the LU price, so the customer will be issued the destination 'U123' even if the journey is to Liverpool Street only. At the moment, the SDS at Seven Sisters, for example, is £2.30 for either destination so the U123 destination should be issued. A Hackney Downs to Liverpool Street SDS fare should still be issued as 'London Terminals' for passenger journeys to that destination and a Zone U12 issued for onward journeys on LUL services via Liverpool Street. /quote HTH, Barry -- Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce! DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the views of my employers. |
LT card validity on suburban rail
(sandy) wrote in message . com...
Tom Anderson wrote in message ... Hi, TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf on page 18 has the full list of National Rail services for which LU tickets (including LT Cards) are valid. For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards? I believe in January that the 16-17 Card is becoming a travelcard and is being decreased in price to child fares. I don't know whether the Student Card would get decreased but if it is an LT card now will it become a Travelcard in January? |
LT card validity on suburban rail
"Peter Smyth" wrote in message ...
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message ... Hi, TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid. Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road, amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student LT card? I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer. The full list of NR service on which LT cards are valid a Amersham - Marylebone Finsbury Park - King's Cross/Moorgate Kentish Town - Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge Kenton - Euston (not at Kilburn High Road or South Hampstead) Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (not at any intermediate stations) Richmond - Gunnersbury Stratford - Custom House Stratford - Liverpool Street Upminster - Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street West Ruislip - South Ruislip Peter Smyth Are LT cards usable at Harrow and Wealdstone station at all then? The earlier list of routes appeared to imply that the cards were valid on Silverlink services from that station up to Queen's Park, but that distinction between journeys looks unenforceable in practice, unless you boarded a fast train to Euston. |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On 21 Nov 2003, CJC wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote in message ... TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards? At present, they're LT cards. I believe in January that the 16-17 Card is becoming a travelcard and is being decreased in price to child fares. I don't know whether the Student Card would get decreased but if it is an LT card now will it become a Travelcard in January? Now *that* would be nice. Especially if the price went down too! tom -- Throw bricks at lawyers if you can! |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Barry Salter wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:39:38 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote: So, national rail (and so WAGN) will let me use my LT card on the train, but TfL won't. This change was, in fact, made back in March, as follows: Ah! Fantastic! I asked the station mistress (well, station madam, or something; just the woman selling tickets, actually) at my train station, and she said it wasn't valid, but this definitely makes it look like she was wrong. quote May i ask where the quote is from? LT Tickets are valid on train operating company services over the following sections: Liverpool Street-Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central These amendments begin to integrate fares pricing on West Anglia routes from the Victoria Line south with the London Underground zonal pricing structure. This simplifies the journey experience for the passenger by providing a greater level of travel opportunities. Examples: An LT Card is valid for a journey between Liverpool Street and Walthamstow Central on West Anglia services. A zone U12 underground ticket issued at Oxford Circus is valid on West Anglia services to Clapton. (Gates at Liverpool Street have been programmed to allow such a journey opportunity). It doesn't explicitly mention LT cards and stops between Liverpool Street and Walthamstow Central; however, i assume from these examples that an LT card would be valid for going to, say, Clapton, which is what i want to do. HTH, It does, very much. Thanks. tom -- Throw bricks at lawyers if you can! |
LT card validity on suburban rail
Tom Anderson wrote:
On 21 Nov 2003, CJC wrote: Tom Anderson wrote in message ... TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards? At present, they're LT cards. Which leads to the question... why aren't they TfL cards? -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 |
LT card validity on suburban rail
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:36:39 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: On 21 Nov 2003, CJC wrote: Tom Anderson wrote in message ... TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services."; For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards? At present, they're LT cards. Which leads to the question... why aren't they TfL cards? Its for _historic_ reasons. In memory of LT. 1/7/33 - 16/7/03. Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
LT card validity on suburban rail
Robert Woolley wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Dave Arquati wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: At present, they're LT cards. Which leads to the question... why aren't they TfL cards? Its for _historic_ reasons. In memory of LT. 1/7/33 - 16/7/03. But what about in the mid 80s, when it changed to LRT? It's reverted to LT before, and will do again - it's only a matter of time! |
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