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Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a 25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at the latest. Martin |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Martin Whelton" wrote in message om... Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a 25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at the latest. Peter Hendy, Managing Director, Surface Transport, says it all. Roger |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:06:23 +0000 (UTC), "Bluestars"
wrote: "Martin Whelton" wrote in message . com... Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a 25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at the latest. Peter Hendy, Managing Director, Surface Transport, says it all. Roger What does he say? If you mean that 'Surface Transport' says it all then that's not clear. The Surface Transport directorate covers: a) Buses (London Buses) b) Bus Priority - funding and engineering the schemes. c) All of London's traffic signals d) The Transport for London Road Network e) Walking and cycling schemes across London f) Congestion Charging g) Enforcement (bus lane cameras, on bus cameras, speed and red light cameras) h) London River Services i) Victoria Coach Station j) Contract management for Croydon Tramlink. Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
I suspect Bluestars point is the omission from your list of (k).....
A somewhat unhealthy prediliction for the Articulated Bus products of Mercedes Benz Gmbh coupled with, (l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV capable of meeting or exceeding present performance standards WITHOUT recourse to additional and highly questionable supports (ie: Cashless Boarding aka Revenue Free Transport). Maybe others can fill in the remaining slots from (m) to (z)........ : ) |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Billy" wrote the following in:
(l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV What is/was the Marshall Refurbishment programme? -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing". Then and than are different words! |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:52:46 -0000, "Billy"
wrote: I suspect Bluestars point is the omission from your list of (k)..... A somewhat unhealthy prediliction for the Articulated Bus products of Mercedes Benz Gmbh coupled with, (l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV capable of meeting or exceeding present performance standards except the refurb won't give you an accessible bus.... WITHOUT recourse to additional and highly questionable supports (ie: Cashless Boarding aka Revenue Free Transport). I think you'll find that the revenue regime is changing: New posts managing revenue inspections: http://www.tfl.gov.uk./tfl/jobs/jobs-tfl-tped-2.shtml I also know (I admit tor working for TfL) that there are plans to increase the revenue inspection. Maybe others can fill in the remaining slots from (m) to (z)........ : ) -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
I used to work route 73 albeit on Sundays only when it was one person only
operated. I think bendibuses are an excellent idea as they are extremely quick to load and unload compared with routemasters. -- Remove "0" from from daveb07890 to reply "Martin Whelton" wrote in message om... Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a 25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at the latest. Martin |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
Yes David,but only if they are operating under the Cashless 3 Door Boarding
system. My point is that if the Citaro is operated on the same system as a Routemaster,ie:cash Fares collected then the "Advantages" tend to evaporate. The problem with TfL`s introduction of Cashless Operation is that it has NOT been accompanied by the very necessary increase in Revenue Inspection and Roving Supervision. Rob Wooley`s previous post re planned increases in Rev Pro resources confirms how wrong TfL have got this one. Once the Revenue Collection system is compromised in the Travelling Public`s eye it then becomes far more difficult to re-impose the required degree of compliance. On my two most recent visits to Londres I witnessed intending pax being waved through on both an RV 1 and on a 527 because thay proffessed to having some form of difficulty with the Off Bus ticketing machines. Now it is not these individual pax concerned that TfL need be concerned about but the many other pax already on the buses concerned who were a receptive audience indeed to a short play about Free Travel...... And while I am about it Bob Wooley (Who admits to working for TfL.....Well somebody`s gotta do it ?) is only partially correct in Town Crying the TfL line on "Accessibility" where the Routemaster is concerned. Its a matter of opinion really as to whether a Considerately Conducted Routemaster is any worse than a modern One Person Operated Low Floor Double Decker for MOST people up to and including those classed as "Moderately" disabled. I am aware of some discussions in which many ambulatory but infirm folks remain resolutely in favour of the Routemaster TPO especially in its refurbished guise with DipTAC Stanchions and Brighter Interior lighting..... I am not an Anorak in this matter,as I am well aware of areas where the Routemaster does fall short of modern practice BUT the Standard of service capabable of being performed by the Refurbished vehicles remains on or above par with even the most modern LFDD designs. I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....????? |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Billy" wrote in message ...
I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....????? You're missing the point. Routemasters allow passengers to get on and off where they please. As this is of obvious benefit to the passenger and requires passengers to behave like adults and not run into the path of an oncoming truck it cannot be allowed to continue. Hence the standard option of buses with doors that won't open until the driver is within 10 foot of the stop (even if he's stuck in stationary traffic 50 meters away and 50 ****ed off people want to get off) must be put in its place. I'm amazed in fact that the HSE didn't ban routemasters long ago , its the sort of thing those bedwetters love to do. B2003 |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
Billy, I appreciate the time you've taken in replying to my post. And there
is no way I can comment on DipTac requirements, neither do I have any knowledge on the effectiveness of Revenue Inspectors and Roving supervision. A comparison with the French bus system which as you probably know is also cashless, is not possible as the network is nowhere near as extensive as ours. All I can comment on is 'In service' observations comparing Routemasters and the Citaro's which is what I will attempt to do here. First of all I think a lot of work has been done to increase both the number and reliability of off-bus ticketing machines. They seem to be located at every stop and at major stops there are more than one of them. From limited observation the Revenue Inspection seems to be most effective when a group of Inspectors accompanied by police officers 'swoop' on a bus stopping it until all passengers tickets are checked. And I have to say some Inspectors do not help themselves in their heavy handed "I am God" approach. One of my passengers came downstairs and told me that if the Inspector spoke like that to him again he would 'clobber him one'..... the passenger concerned had a valid ticket. I agree that a well conducted routemaster is better than a one person operated low floor double decker, but a Citaro Artic is better than a routemaster by virtue of it being single decked and having 3 large entrance/exits. Its dwell time at stops when at or near full capacity is better than a double decked vehicle be it routemaster or lowfloor bus. I now operate a National Express service into London every day and am very impressed by how little time a Citaro spends at stops. On the other hand I know how lazy some bus conductors can be, the tactic seems to be delaying the right away signal so the end up late before their break (thereby gaining an overtime payment) and as a result of late running reduced mileage will be operated on the second half of the duty. Also I cannot stress the amount of stress Routemasters cause when Tourists use them in places like Oxford Street. I have seen many fall off as they attempt to get on/off inbetween stops. -- Remove "0" from from daveb07890 to reply "Billy" wrote in message ... Yes David,but only if they are operating under the Cashless 3 Door Boarding system. My point is that if the Citaro is operated on the same system as a Routemaster,ie:cash Fares collected then the "Advantages" tend to evaporate. The problem with TfL`s introduction of Cashless Operation is that it has NOT been accompanied by the very necessary increase in Revenue Inspection and Roving Supervision. Rob Wooley`s previous post re planned increases in Rev Pro resources confirms how wrong TfL have got this one. Once the Revenue Collection system is compromised in the Travelling Public`s eye it then becomes far more difficult to re-impose the required degree of compliance. On my two most recent visits to Londres I witnessed intending pax being waved through on both an RV 1 and on a 527 because thay proffessed to having some form of difficulty with the Off Bus ticketing machines. Now it is not these individual pax concerned that TfL need be concerned about but the many other pax already on the buses concerned who were a receptive audience indeed to a short play about Free Travel...... And while I am about it Bob Wooley (Who admits to working for TfL.....Well somebody`s gotta do it ?) is only partially correct in Town Crying the TfL line on "Accessibility" where the Routemaster is concerned. Its a matter of opinion really as to whether a Considerately Conducted Routemaster is any worse than a modern One Person Operated Low Floor Double Decker for MOST people up to and including those classed as "Moderately" disabled. I am aware of some discussions in which many ambulatory but infirm folks remain resolutely in favour of the Routemaster TPO especially in its refurbished guise with DipTAC Stanchions and Brighter Interior lighting..... I am not an Anorak in this matter,as I am well aware of areas where the Routemaster does fall short of modern practice BUT the Standard of service capabable of being performed by the Refurbished vehicles remains on or above par with even the most modern LFDD designs. I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....????? |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
om... Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) snip It *isn't* being withdrawn between Stoke and Tottenham. The current practice of operating garage journeys in service to and from Tottenham is being retained. The PVR decrease is solely down to the reduced frequency I'm afraid. Rob |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Rob L." {rob}.latchford{@}ntlworld{.}[com] wrote in message ... "Martin Whelton" wrote in message om... Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) snip It *isn't* being withdrawn between Stoke and Tottenham. The current practice of operating garage journeys in service to and from Tottenham is being retained. The PVR decrease is solely down to the reduced frequency I'm afraid. Rob According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke Newington. Also Arriva haven't commented yet where the route will be run from, so may well not be Tottenham. Paul |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Paul Dredge" wrote in message ... "Rob L." {rob}.latchford{@}ntlworld{.}[com] wrote in message ... "Martin Whelton" wrote in message om... Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) snip It *isn't* being withdrawn between Stoke and Tottenham. The current practice of operating garage journeys in service to and from Tottenham is being retained. The PVR decrease is solely down to the reduced frequency I'm afraid. Rob According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke Newington. Also Arriva haven't commented yet where the route will be run from, so may well not be Tottenham. Paul Lets just say "wait and see"..... :o) Rob |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Billy" wrote in message ... I suspect Bluestars point is the omission from your list of (k)..... A somewhat unhealthy prediliction for the Articulated Bus products of Mercedes Benz Gmbh coupled with, (l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV capable of meeting or exceeding present performance standards WITHOUT recourse to additional and highly questionable supports (ie: Cashless Boarding aka Revenue Free Transport). Maybe others can fill in the remaining slots from (m) to (z)........ : ) I don't see how any sort of refurbishment will ever enable a Routemaster to comply with disability legislation. Purely because of this they have to go. No amount of nostalgia can compensate for barring members of society from the means of getting around. IMHO the Bendy Buses 'do the business', and if Mercedes are the only manufacturer then sobeit. Standing at Holborn in the evening wanting to go to Waterloo I will always make a beeline for the bendibus rather than queueing for the Double Deckers precisely because they are so easy to board. Colin |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:07:35 -0000, "Billy"
wrote: [snip] Rob Wooley`s previous post re planned increases in Rev Pro resources confirms how wrong TfL have got this one. Once the Revenue Collection system is compromised in the Travelling Public`s eye it then becomes far more difficult to re-impose the required degree of compliance. At present many conductors don't bother to come upstairs. Fare collection - what's that then? On my two most recent visits to Londres I witnessed intending pax being waved through on both an RV 1 and on a 527 because thay proffessed to having some form of difficulty with the Off Bus ticketing machines. On any new fare collection arrangement you have to 'nurse' it in. Other posters here have commented that revenue blitzes on artics have kicked in _after_ the route has gone live. When cashless operation comes in, then nursing is the order of the day Now it is not these individual pax concerned that TfL need be concerned about but the many other pax already on the buses concerned who were a receptive audience indeed to a short play about Free Travel...... [snip] I am aware of some discussions in which many ambulatory but infirm folks remain resolutely in favour of the Routemaster TPO especially in its refurbished guise with DipTAC Stanchions and Brighter Interior lighting..... Except mums with pushchairs. And people who can't climb the steps to the lower saloon. Many of the complaints regarding double deck low-floor buses related to the early vehicles which had little seating in the low-floor area. Not surprising as the first buses were DAF chassis which weren't designed as low-floors but had been bodged to get a low-floor spec. I am not an Anorak in this matter,as I am well aware of areas where the Routemaster does fall short of modern practice BUT the Standard of service capabable of being performed by the Refurbished vehicles remains on or above par with even the most modern LFDD designs. I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....????? They certainly are. However: a) Continuing growth in passenger numbers means that RMs in many cases aren't big enough. Hell, even an RML is too short to take a Cat D driving test on. b) Full DDA compliance is attractive - not just for moving wheelchair users, but also for ambulant disabled people and those with shopping/puschairs. Artics have full low-floors throughout. c) What do you do with a conductor? With cash used by less than 20% of passengers and falling they have little to do. They're not security guards. d) PR spin or not, passengers like artics. The quality of construction of the Citaros is excellent. I just wish UK buses were as good - route 83 has received new LFDD - the buses have squeaky doors! Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:06:06 -0000, "Colin"
wrote: IMHO the Bendy Buses 'do the business', and if Mercedes are the only manufacturer then sobeit. snip They aren't; Wright-bodied bendies are preferred by most of the FirstGroup operations that use bendies (e.g. Manchester). The Mercedes product, however, (as with their rigid single-decker products) has an air of much higher quality, even with a PurplePinkPuke(f) interior. I think it's this, rather than price, that is influencing TfL in their choice. I think that, were Mercedes in the business of mass-producing double-deckers with their own body style, they would be very much in evidence as well[1]. That said, the newer deckers with the rounded upper and lower windscreens, large upper windows and generous seat pitch that TfL use in most of their advertising (can't remember who makes them) are a pretty high-quality product compared with most other British deckers. [1] Deckers are rare in Germany, probably Mercedes' largest target markets for buses, mainly because road/rail bridges tend to be much lower. The only place I've seen them in any quantity is Berlin - where absolutely huge long-wheelbase double-doored deckers with two staircases operate many routes. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:07:51 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote: Except mums with pushchairs. And people who can't climb the steps to the lower saloon. Many of the complaints regarding double deck low-floor buses related to the early vehicles which had little seating in the low-floor area. And tall people like me, who can't stand other than on the platform, which isn't that safe and generally isn't permitted, and also can't sit anywhere except the very front seats and the side-facing ones by the door without taking 2 seats or blocking the gangway. And people who don't like shoving past huge standing crowds (downstairs only, OK) to alight. Multiple doors are better - indeed, on very busy routes, German single-deckers of a fairly normal length often have 3 sets of doors! Routemasters are interesting, granted, just like heritage rail stock is. However, for an effective, comfortable passenger service, give me a bendy or very recent dual-door decker any day. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Paul Dredge" wrote in message
... According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke Newington. Also Arriva haven't commented yet where the route will be run from, so may well not be Tottenham. I doubt if a bendibus could reach Tottenham garage... but then, I doubt if it would get around the corner into Stoke Newington Church Street! Has the infrastructure test taken place? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
In article , Robert Woolley
writes They certainly are. However: a) Continuing growth in passenger numbers means that RMs in many cases aren't big enough. Hell, even an RML is too short to take a Cat D driving test on. b) Full DDA compliance is attractive - not just for moving wheelchair users, but also for ambulant disabled people and those with shopping/puschairs. I strongly disagree with this. Although making buses accessible to those in wheelchairs in laudable (I recently took someone on a London bendi in a wheelchair, his first bus ride in 32 years), low floor buses make people like my arthritic mother *much* more unsteady, as the space for wheelchairs (and buggies) is such that stanchions are too widely spaced for them. And of course there are fewer seats. A case of winning on the roundabouts and losing on the swings, I feel. Artics have full low-floors throughout. c) What do you do with a conductor? With cash used by less than 20% of passengers and falling they have little to do. They're not security guards. But maybe they should be? Having a staff member in the saloon makes bus travel feel safer for people and allows them to help with "tourist" type enquiries which can and do cause long delays when such questions are aimed at the driver. d) PR spin or not, passengers like artics. They do, yes. But they like double deckers, too! I've lost count of the number of overseas clients I've had in London for whom as double decker ride is a very "special" thing. Apart from the "open top tour" type operations, I wonder what the vague "heritage operations" will be where RMs will continue? -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
AFAIK the bendibuses don't need much more space than a regular double
decker; the 10.5 metre DAFs seemed to be okay on Sundays. -- Remove "0" from from daveb07890 to reply "John Rowland" wrote in message ... "Paul Dredge" wrote in message ... According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke Newington. Also Arriva haven't commented yet where the route will be run from, so may well not be Tottenham. I doubt if a bendibus could reach Tottenham garage... but then, I doubt if it would get around the corner into Stoke Newington Church Street! Has the infrastructure test taken place? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
David B...My only experience of the French systems are in Paris on the RATP
and slightly OT in Brussels and Charleroi a Belge. The RATP does accept Cash-to- Driver transactions,BUT it will almost certainly be accompanied by a Folies Bergere performance of eye-rolling,shoulder shrugging and much heaving of the breast (and that`s les Hommes !) before the Driver opens his little drawer and manually produces a ticket (?1.30) which you then validate yourself. Whilst the driver is recovering from the heebie-jeebies you then realise that the remaining passengers were also regarding you with insouciance and occasional rasping taunts from the older females who are ALWAYS in a huge rush to get on and off the vehicle and in posession of razor-edged cases to help clear a path for themselves. I was caught out only once and now my first visit when in Paris is to a Vending Machine to purchase a carnet (10 single tickets for 10 euro,saving 3 euro on the deal and also a lot of face) Again however the very principle of OPO does tend to discourage any form of questioning of the Driver,something which the WELL Conducted Routemaster can cope with and even encourage. Another difference in ethos concerns the Revenue Protection operation. On 4 seperate visits to France last year I witnessed Revenue or RATP Agents Seurete in operation on Bus and Metro and also in Nice where I saw two fare dodgers caught red-handed and relieved of 66 euro as an alternative to having the Police involved,an alternative which was grasped with alacrity by the two miscreants...(The fare ??...........1 euro 60 cent...!!!!) Contrast that to my experience of 6 seperate visits to London when the only time my Travelcard was inspected was by Conductors on Routemaster services....... In addition I do feel that the entire business of Buggy access has the capability to rebound on Bus companies as it is becoming increasingly difficult to enforce any safe limit to the numbers of such contrivances...(and before anybody cries foul I lay claim to the effective stewardship of two childer..one 22 and the other 9....). Eventually the limit will be drawn in sand following some major incident when the Courts will be forced to impose regulations on companies who simply regard low-floor space as a marketable wheeze to bring out "Young-Mums" and convince them all that they will have guaranteed access to every Bus which happens along. I took one memorable journey in Notingham on an Optare Solo (?) which at one stage had FOUR occupied buggies PLUS attached dangling shopping..at one point a FIFTH buggy pushing gent actually attempted to lift his buggy over the ones which were already blocking the gangway before being prevented from so doing by other PASSENGERS rather than by the driver. At the end of the journey the driver told me that he and his colleagues felt unable to say Boo to the buggy pushers for fear of being reported and hounded by young Graduate Management types for being uncivil to the deprived or socially excluded in the community.... My central point is not to compare the Routemaster with ANY of the newer modes of bus operation but to recognise how it does have a perfectly acceptable level of performance especially in Refurbished form and as such is capable of continued cost effective mainstream service. But in the end Boltar is probably nearer the point as it seems a central tenet of Administrators is to continually convince us that we need protection from every risk such as jumping off a moving bus might present...but then that sort of advice was once a reserved function of Parents,Aunties,Uncles,and strict Schoolmasters all of whom tried to instil a respect for things which might injure or kill us...Including Buses which as most people know do not posess a conscience....! |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
Except mums with pushchairs. And people who can't climb the steps to
the lower saloon. Many of the complaints regarding double deck low-floor buses related to the early vehicles which had little seating in the low-floor area. Oh the modern ones still have problems too. The seats at the rear of the bus are often up high steps that make them as inaccessible as the upstairs (and even for those that can use them extra care is needed when going to get off the bus, I've lost footing a few times myself). The side facing seats often found near the front are not deep enough and have inadequate hand grips so when the bus turns corners people are catapulted across the floor of the bus. When the wheelchair areas are not in use the hinged seats will often quickly spring up without passengers realising so if they drop something and go to pick it up they end up falling to the floor. |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
"Graham J" typed
Except mums with pushchairs. And people who can't climb the steps to the lower saloon. Many of the complaints regarding double deck low-floor buses related to the early vehicles which had little seating in the low-floor area. Oh the modern ones still have problems too. The seats at the rear of the bus are often up high steps that make them as inaccessible as the upstairs (and even for those that can use them extra care is needed when going to get off the bus, I've lost footing a few times myself). Actually, they are *less* accessible than the top deck of a double decker for someone like me. Double deckers have narrow staircases with handrails on both sides, so I can pull myself upstairs with my arms. Trouble is, many fit people can't be bothered to go upstairs, forcing people like me upstairs where I can be guaranteed a seat. Steps on single deckers can be high, with few available handholds. I try to avoid to try to use the seats at the back of either single or modern double-decker buses as I can't approach or leave these safely. Other passengers can also end up with me stepping on their toes. The side facing seats often found near the front are not deep enough and have inadequate hand grips so when the bus turns corners people are catapulted across the floor of the bus. As has happened to me... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
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Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:49:15 -0000, "Billy"
wrote: The RATP does accept Cash-to- Driver transactions,BUT it will almost certainly be accompanied by a Folies Bergere performance of eye-rolling,shoulder shrugging and much heaving of the breast (and that`s les Hommes !) before the Driver opens his little drawer and manually produces a ticket (?1.30) which you then validate yourself. Whilst the driver is recovering from the heebie-jeebies you then realise that the remaining passengers were also regarding you with insouciance and occasional rasping taunts from the older females who are ALWAYS in a huge rush to get on and off the vehicle and in posession of razor-edged cases to help clear a path for themselves. I've only used a Parisian bus once, but I had no problems with a cash fare, and I don't even speak French. I used a Connex bus in Kutna Hora (CZ) recently, and the driver was perfectly helpful, in contast to a week or so later when a Connex driver in Croydon was extremely rude to a would-be passenger who made the mistake of asking if he went to a particular place. Contrast that to my experience of 6 seperate visits to London when the only time my Travelcard was inspected was by Conductors on Routemaster services....... You didn't use the Underground, or a gated National Rail station? (OK, on NR you just go the side gate and wave any random bit of paper and it will usually get you through) -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
Followup-To: On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:32:17 +0000, Arthur Figgis postmaster@[ wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:49:15 -0000, "Billy" wrote: The RATP does accept Cash-to- Driver transactions,BUT it will almost certainly be accompanied by a Folies Bergere performance of eye-rolling,shoulder shrugging and much heaving of the breast (and that`s les Hommes !) before the Driver opens his little drawer and manually produces a ticket (?1.30) which you then validate yourself. Whilst the driver is recovering from the heebie-jeebies you then realise that the remaining passengers were also regarding you with insouciance and occasional rasping taunts from the older females who are ALWAYS in a huge rush to get on and off the vehicle and in posession of razor-edged cases to help clear a path for themselves. I've only used a Parisian bus once, but I had no problems with a cash fare, and I don't even speak French. I used a Connex bus in Kutna Hora (CZ) recently, and the driver was perfectly helpful, in contast to a week or so later when a Connex you didnt happen past the Alchemical Museum by any chance? -- Martin Smith |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:04:48 +0000, Martin Smith
wrote: I used a Connex bus in Kutna Hora (CZ) recently, and the driver was perfectly helpful, in contast to a week or so later when a Connex you didnt happen past the Alchemical Museum by any chance? Nope. Just a mad Welsh couple arguing about whether a cathedral wall painting of an animal with a hump stood the middle of a desert was of a camel or a monkey, and a crypt full of bones. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
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Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
Yes Colin this IS indeed a unique advantage but it is also one of the many
reasons for TfL`s insistance on retiring the breed. The Routemaster remains a unique concept which rather than becoming less relevant with the passage of time is actually bucking the trend. My last spell of travel on a NEW low floor bus was in the presence of pasengers who were extremely irrated by the Drivers (Quite Correct) refusal to open the exit doors until he was adjacent to the kerb. Although the fellow did actually allow passengers to alight between stops he was not prepared to open the doors while the bus was out on the carriageway......Sometimes progress is not quite what it seems....? The build up of tension within the bus was most noticable and certainly not a facet which could be marketed as a "desirable" feature of LFDD bus travel......??? |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:11:00 -0000, "Billy"
wrote: Yes Colin this IS indeed a unique advantage but it is also one of the many reasons for TfL`s insistance on retiring the breed. The Routemaster remains a unique concept which rather than becoming less relevant with the passage of time is actually bucking the trend. My last spell of travel on a NEW low floor bus was in the presence of pasengers who were extremely irrated by the Drivers (Quite Correct) refusal to open the exit doors until he was adjacent to the kerb. Although the fellow did actually allow passengers to alight between stops he was not prepared to open the doors while the bus was out on the carriageway......Sometimes progress is not quite what it seems....? The build up of tension within the bus was most noticable and certainly not a facet which could be marketed as a "desirable" feature of LFDD bus travel......??? AFAIR, up to 10 passengers a year die from falling from the rear platforms of Routemasters. That's not a desirable feature of open platform operation.... Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:49:31 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote: AFAIR, up to 10 passengers a year die from falling from the rear platforms of Routemasters. That's not a desirable feature of open platform operation.... Nor is the seat pitch (or the fact that you *have* to sit down - sometimes I'd prefer to stand on a short journey). Or the cold in winter. Or the slow boarding/alighting on a busy bus, and having to fight your way to the back just like you do on single-doored double-deckers which are thankfully rare in London (3 wide doors works so much better than one narrow opening). Or the headroom, or lack thereof. They're an interesting curiosity, but I think the disadvantages by far outweigh the advantages. Bring on the bendies, and perhaps some quality full-size rigid single deckers like the RV1 Citaros rather than that Dennis rubbish for other, quieter routes. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
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Route 73 to be converted to Bendi Bus
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:11:00 -0000, "Billy"
wrote: Yes Colin this IS indeed a unique advantage but it is also one of the many reasons for TfL`s insistance on retiring the breed. The Routemaster remains a unique concept which rather than becoming less relevant with the passage of time is actually bucking the trend. pedant As I understand it the Routemaster is a unique concept in many ways - lightweight construction, advanced suspension, close collaboration between London Transport and the manufacturers during development, high standards of industrial design. But the layout with an open platform at the back was surely the norm for British urban buses from before 1900 until the 1960s. That's hardly a unique concept, though the Routemasters must have outlived most other open-platform buses in regular service by at least 20 years. /pedant as somebody will probably be along to challenge my last sentence Martin |
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