On 15 Apr, 13:49, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:41:15 +0100

"Recliner" wrote:
I simply don't see any on the BBC channels. I think you may have a
reception problem. Or could it be that you're watching on a flat screen

Nope , my recption is fine and even if it wasn't it wouldn't cause these
sorts of artifacts. Watch any any fast motion or any motion all over the
screen such as the surface of water and you'll see it. It even occurs on DVDs
occasionally though not to the same extent.

+1 for broadcast - even see this on BBC One on challenging shots.

I think if you see such faults on decent DVDs, you're probably using a
screen size + viewing distance that's unsuitable for SD viewing.
Depends whether it's interlaced or progressive content. Interlaced is
more challenging.

telly that isn't resizing the image properly? *[I'm still using
excellent CRT TV sets.]

Perhaps your CRT is smearing the image slightly so you don't see it.

To be fair, a very good CRT is applying a slight horizontal low pass
filter in terms of the Gaussian spot shape, but that's not bad thing.

All flat panels are also applying filtering during the upscaling (none
are native SD "PAL" resolution), plus deinterlacing, plus sharpening,
plus very strange processing of near-blacks on LCDs, etc etc, all of
which make encoding artefacts far more obvious than they are in the
source.

Plus flat panels are usually bigger, making it even more likely that
you're sitting too close (for a give screen size) for SD to look
acceptable.

Cheers,
David.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:19:53 -0700 (PDT)
" wrote:
Plus flat panels are usually bigger, making it even more likely that
you're sitting too close (for a give screen size) for SD to look
acceptable.

Well for a start I'm not the only other person who can see it - its come up
many times on uk.tech.digital-tv, plus we watch a 32inch set from the other
side of the room which I reckon is a pretty good distance!

B2003

In article , Recliner
scribeth thus
wrote in message

No we haven't, vested interests came along and ruined it. Freeview has
been buggered up by putting on so many channels that half of them
look like a live report from Legoland as soon as anyone moves because
of the mpeg blocking artifacts. Even the main BBC channels can't cope
with highly mobile scenes such as running water or sea surf without
noticable blocks appearing in the picture. Compared to a decent PAL
transmission it looks utter ****.

Could this depend on the quality of reception you get? I'm very pleased
with the Freeview quality I get -- much better than analogue, which I
now never watch.


I reckon very few have seen analogue as it can be with a decent TX feed
and PAL decoder and now bu^^er all are likely to either;!...

--
Tony Sayer

No we haven't, vested interests came along and ruined it. Freeview has
been buggered up by putting on so many channels that half of them look like
a live report from Legoland as soon as anyone moves because of the mpeg
blocking artifacts. Even the main BBC channels can't cope with highly
mobile scenes such as running water or sea surf without noticable blocks
appearing in the picture. Compared to a decent PAL transmission it looks
utter ****.

B2003

Thanks for sharing. I had no idea. Here in Reno I receive digital TV
thru the Cable system. The quality is outstanding. I don't have a
need to go for Hi Def. I figuered that, if anything, digital quality
in the UK would be better. The old analogue signal was certainly
better in the UK.

Better then digital in the UK?..

And where are the digital pix sourced from on your cable system?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article
..com, E27002 scribeth thus
On Apr 14, 1:33*am, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT)

E27002 wrote:
IMHO it is time to end the pretence of impartiality and allow a free
market of ideas on the UK broadcast spectrum. *This might be a good
election platform for Mr. Cameron. *He might in enjoy considerable
support from Mr. Murdoch.

Unfortunately it seems that most london pirates are in it for the ego trip
and/or a lot are in some way related to organised crime (allegedly). They
all transmit the same sort of urban **** which is already available on a
number of other legit stations already such as Choice FM, KISS, 1Xtra etc.

So we are talking Hip-hop. Each to their own I suppose. But, how
many outlets does a city need for a "music" form where every "song"
sounds the same?

Imagine all those London Towers with legitimate FM transmitters atop!

Imagine all the interference to TV and radio sets for the people living
underneath them.

Well there shouldn't be interference if the job is done properly. I
guess that would be asking a lot.

The performance specifications in the UK are very high on the emissions
from the TX equipment, but the receiver performance is where the problem
lies.

A lot of them can't handle the large signals found near TX sites...


--
Tony Sayer

On Apr 15, 9:26*am, tony sayer wrote:
No we haven't, vested interests came along and ruined it. Freeview has
been buggered up by putting on so many channels that half of them look like
a live report from Legoland as soon as anyone moves because of the mpeg
blocking artifacts. Even the main BBC channels can't cope with highly
mobile scenes such as running water or sea surf without noticable blocks
appearing in the picture. Compared to a decent PAL transmission it looks
utter ****.

B2003

Thanks for sharing. *I had no idea. *Here in Reno I receive digital TV
thru the Cable system. *The quality is outstanding. *I don't have a
need to go for Hi Def. *I figuered that, if anything, digital quality
in the UK would be better. *The old analogue signal was certainly
better in the UK.

Better then digital in the UK?.

What I meant was that the UK, PAL, Analogue signal was, IMHO, always
superior to the US, NTSC, Signal. Although in the latter years of
NTSC broadcasters seemed to have cleaned it up somewhat.

And where are the digital pix sourced from on your cable system?..

All US TV is now digital. I do not know how the local TV stations
deliver their signal the Cable Company. It may be over the air.
But, I rather suspect they use some sort of direct feed, or
Satellite. Other services, like A&E, AMC, Bravo, TMC, etc are
certainly received from Satellites.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:45:16 -0700, E27002 wrote:

All US TV is now digital.

Actually, not all US terrestrial television is digital.

There are still some Class A, Low Power, and Translator stations
continuing to broadcast analog television and the FCC has not yet
finalized a date for when these are to be converted to digital.

http://www.fcc.GOV/cgb/consumerfacts/DTVandLPTV.html

Also, is it not the case that there are still a few cable operators
distributing cable tv by analog cable transmission?

I do not know how the local TV stations deliver their signal the
Cable Company.

It all depends on the local TV station and the cable company.

As you say, in some cases there is a direct feed from the TV station
to the cable company, whereas others are received off air.

On Apr 15, 12:07*pm, J G Miller wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:45:16 -0700, E27002 wrote:
All US TV is now digital.

Actually, not all US terrestrial television is digital.

There are still some Class A, Low Power, and Translator stations
continuing to broadcast analog television and the FCC has not yet
finalized a date for when these are to be converted to digital.

* *http://www.fcc.GOV/cgb/consumerfacts/DTVandLPTV.html

Also, is it not the case that there are still a few cable operators
distributing cable tv by analog cable transmission?

Yes, my cable company receives digital signals, but distributes both
analogue and digital. AFIK, that is common.

Richard Hunt wrote

E27002 wrote:

It came as a surprise to me to find out that DAB only duplicates
what
is available on FM. This appears to be a missed opportunity.

If you look at www.wohnort.org/DAB you will see that there are quite
a
number of Digital-only services. Many of them though just offer more
of
the same, an illusion of choice.

Note BBC 6 and BBC 7 (with Goon Show repeats).

--
Mike D

In article 01cadce7$b4906b00$LocalHost@default, Michael R N Dolbear
scribeth thus
Richard Hunt wrote

E27002 wrote:

It came as a surprise to me to find out that DAB only duplicates
what
is available on FM. This appears to be a missed opportunity.

If you look at www.wohnort.org/DAB you will see that there are quite
a
number of Digital-only services. Many of them though just offer more
of
the same, an illusion of choice.

Note BBC 6 and BBC 7 (with Goon Show repeats).


And BBC 6 now closing down...
--
Tony Sayer