My annual London vacation is coming up, and this time I will be joined by a
friend who will arrive a few days later than me. This is his first visit to
London, so he is a bit nervous about travelling in the big city. We have
agreed to meet in a Central London station since travelling down to Gatwick
to meet him is deemed to expensive and time consuming. I haven't done that
journey myself, so can you advice on how to

- buy the correct ticket
- get on the right train
- get off at the right station

He will be arriving at Gatwick Airport around 2pm on Monday June 14. We are
staying near Walthamstow Central. My reaseach shows that the cheapest fare
is £17 return with FCC to St. Pancras, which is convenient for the Victoria
Line.

--
jhk

On May 17, 5:04*pm, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
My annual London vacation is coming up, and this time I will be joined by a
friend who will arrive a few days later than me. This is his first visit to
London, so he is a bit nervous about travelling in the big city. We have
agreed to meet in a Central London station since travelling down to Gatwick
to meet him is deemed to expensive and time consuming. I haven't done that
journey myself, so can you advice on how to

- buy the correct ticket
- get on the right train
- get off at the right station

He will be arriving at Gatwick Airport around 2pm on Monday June 14. We are
staying near Walthamstow Central. My research shows that the cheapest fare
is £17 return with FCC to St. Pancras, which is convenient for the Victoria
Line.

OK, first thing to say is that ticketing between Gatwick and London is
mindbendingly mindboggling!

But yes, there is a £17 Anytime Return fare - note that this is an FCC-
only fare, though if you get it issued to St Pancras then I don't
think it actually states "FCC only" on the ticket as such - instead
the destination would be specifically stated as "St Pancras" and the
route shown as "Not Underground", which basically restricts you to the
FCC Thameslink route only anyway. Note that this ticket is therefore
*not* valid on any Southern services between Victoria and Gatwick (nor
on the slow stopping Southern trains from London Bridge either - but
you wouldn't want to use them anyway!).

You don't state when your friend is returning to Gatwick - note that
on many weekends (though not all) the FCC Thameslink route through
central London is closed - see the information on FCC's website he
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=64

If the FCC Thameslink 'core' route (in central London) is closed then
FCC trains to Gatwick will start from London Bridge instead - the
ticket should be valid for travel on the Tube (in lieu of FCC) between
St Pancras and London Bridge, though if the ticket doesn't work the LU
gates I can imagine it being questioned by a member of staff given
that it reads "Not Underground"! However if your friend is travelling
from Walthamstow on the Tube it wouldn't cost them anything extra to
go to London Bridge instead (it's a zones 1-3 journey either way). If
they're travelling back at the weekend it might be worth checking what
Tube lines are and are not running too.

From Gatwick your friend would need to catch a Bedford bound train -
these will be clearly displayed and announced as "First Capital
Connect services". They'd need to get off at St Pancras, obviously!
The stop before it is Farringdon - as long as they are paying
attention once the train started going underground (after Blackfriars)
they shouldn't miss it. There's only one way out of the low-level
platforms at St Pancras onto the main concourse, and you can arrange
to meet them on the other side of the gates there.

Going back to Gatwick from St Pancras, your friend would need to catch
a Brighton bound train (not Sutton, Wimbledon, Sevenoaks or anywhere
else) - likewise if the train was starting from London Bridge it would
be going to Brighton too.

There's all sorts of other weird and wonderful ticket combinations
that I could dream up for you, but there's not a lot of point! Make
sure you both get Oyster cards, or otherwise buy Day Travelcards on
each day or indeed a weekly Travelcard depending on your proposed
travel patterns. And enjoy yourselves!

On May 17, 6:11*pm, Mizter T wrote:
[snip query from Jarle]

OK, first thing to say is that ticketing between Gatwick and London is
mindbendingly mindboggling!

[big snip]

There's all sorts of other weird and wonderful ticket combinations
that I could dream up for you, but there's not a lot of point! [...]

OK, I will just mention one - not because I'd recommend it, but
because someone else might come along and say 'aha, you missed this
one'!

There are cheap Advance fares available on Southern trains (but not
the Gatwick Express) between Gatwick and Victoria - if you buy them
from the Southern website, they are priced at £4.25, £6.40 and £8.50.
However they are for specified trains *only* - i.e. they can only be
used on the one specified train. I have used one in the past to get to
Gatwick when I was reasonably confident of our departure time (well, I
knew when the flight was supposed to be leaving!) and was also being
somewhat unusually hyper-organised (plus they were a bit cheaper then
- I paid £3). But they're no good after landing at Gatwick as you
never know exactly when the plane will land and just how long it'll
take to escape the airport.

In message
, at
10:11:17 on Mon, 17 May 2010, Mizter T remarked:
My annual London vacation is coming up, and this time I will be joined by a
friend who will arrive a few days later than me. This is his first visit to
London, so he is a bit nervous about travelling in the big city. We have
agreed to meet in a Central London station since travelling down to Gatwick
to meet him is deemed to expensive and time consuming. I haven't done that
journey myself, so can you advice on how to

- buy the correct ticket

It will be listed on the ticket machines at Gatwick - but not
necessarily on the first screen. Looking for the price, first, is often
easier than looking for the description.

- get on the right train

At Gatwick the trains are quite well signed and described on the
monitors. His train will be going to Bedford.

- get off at the right station

Once again, St Pancras (low level) is quite well signed and shouldn't be
a problem recognising. I suggest he then goes up the escalators and out
of the barriers and meets you in the vicinity of the Farmers Market.
You'll then be able to go down to the Northern Ticket Hall for the
Victoria Line.

He will be arriving at Gatwick Airport around 2pm on Monday June 14.

The railway station is attached to the South Terminal, and currently the
shuttle from the North Terminal is bustituted.

We are staying near Walthamstow Central. My research shows that the
cheapest fare is £17 return with FCC to St. Pancras, which is
convenient for the Victoria Line.

--
Roland Perry

Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
My annual London vacation is coming up, and this time I will be joined by a
friend who will arrive a few days later than me. This is his first visit to
London, so he is a bit nervous about travelling in the big city. We have
agreed to meet in a Central London station since travelling down to Gatwick
to meet him is deemed to expensive and time consuming. I haven't done that
journey myself, so can you advice on how to

A question for you. Will he have significant quantities of luggage with
him?

If he will, then that can change the picture somewhat. Many tube stations
have escalators and stairs but no lifts. Changing, in particular, can
involve lots of passageways with short flights of stairs.

There are lifts to the platforms at Gatwick, and I'm fairly sure there are
lifts from the FCC platforms at St Pancras. Are there lifts to the Victoria
line yet at KX St P?

I don't think there are any lifts onto the Victoria line at Victoria.
Trains arrive at street level there so you don't need a lift to get out of
the train. I can't remember how much of a walk there is. The Victoria line
northbound from Victoria is more likely to be busy than north from St P, so
there's more chance of finding a space to put luggage.

If you go to the journey planner on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/ and tell it you
want step-free access it'll give you a route - which may involve a bus
instead. (You can set a maximum walk time too but that doesn't take into
account the walk inside the station. There's a journey planner that
includes steps and station walk distances somewhere.

Theo

On May 17, 7:09*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2010 10:11:17 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

On May 17, 5:04*pm, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
My annual London vacation is coming up, and this time I will be joined by a
friend who will arrive a few days later than me. This is his first visit to
London, so he is a bit nervous about travelling in the big city. We have
agreed to meet in a Central London station since travelling down to Gatwick
to meet him is deemed to expensive and time consuming. I haven't done that
journey myself, so can you advice on how to

- buy the correct ticket
- get on the right train
- get off at the right station

He will be arriving at Gatwick Airport around 2pm on Monday June 14. We are
staying near Walthamstow Central. My research shows that the cheapest fare
is £17 return with FCC to St. Pancras, which is convenient for the Victoria
Line.

OK, first thing to say is that ticketing between Gatwick and London is
mindbendingly mindboggling!

I don't like to disagree with you but why would you put anyone on a FCC
train on a FCC specific ticket at Gatwick to reach central London?

Because it was Jarle who mentioned the FCC-only £17 fare!


Surely the simplest option is to pay a wee bit more and just get a
ticket that covers both bases in terms of Southern and First Capital
Connect? *If Jarle's friend is a bit flush with cash then he go the
whole hog and opt for Gatwick Express.

I merely took my prompt from Jarle's question - he mentioned that he'd
identified the "cheapest fare", so I assumed that might be what he was
looking for, and he didn't mention the flushness-or-otherwise of his
friend!

But as we're here I'll mention the other options... an Anytime Return
'route: not via Gatwick Express' - i.e. valid on Southern or FCC -
costs £23.60 (so that's £6.60 more - which is a bit more than a "wee
bit more" in my books, but maybe that's just because I'm a bit of a
skinflint!).

A return on the Gatwick Express (GatEx) meanwhile costs £25.80 - my
understanding is that GatEx tickets are now valid on Southern services
too, but they're not valid on FCC services.

(Furthermore, AIUI the only fully interavailable fares on this route -
i.e. valid on Southern, FCC *and* GatEx - are the pricey Off-Peak and
Anytime Day Travelcards at £27 and £32.80 respectively - obviously
they only allow for a day return though. Do note however that there
are cheaper FCC-only, Southern-only, and 'not GatEx' Day Travelcards
also available. So, all nice and simple...which is presumably why many
weary travellers just get on the GatEx and pay the premium fare on-
board.)


While we can debate which station is more confusing I think it is
preferable to aim for Victoria where there is a single gateline which
everyone off a Brighton line train has to get through. Jarle should not
have an issue with meeting his friend in that area - assuming they're
not arriving in the middle of the AM Peak!

Hmm - there's also only a single gateline out of the low-level FCC
Thameslink platforms at St Pancras, and it looks like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianvisits/2097985575/

Of course Jarle needs to find his way there in good time to meet his
pal.

FWIW my initial thought was that Victoria would be simpler, but then I
thought about it again and wasn't so sure it was so clear cut.


The Vic Line to Walthamstow is only a few minutes away and it's a direct
tube.

I think the morass of the Kings Cross St Pancras complex and very poor
signage at St Pancras is far more risky in terms of someone getting very
lost indeed.

Well Jarle - it's your call!


Oh and to Jarle - waves from Walthamstow

What's the Paul C tip-top E17 recommendation for him then? I'm
thinking a food establishment of some sort, but it could be anything...

On Mon, 17 May 2010 10:11:17 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote:

OK, first thing to say is that ticketing between Gatwick and London is
mindbendingly mindboggling!

I agree.

You don't state when your friend is returning to Gatwick - note that
on many weekends (though not all) the FCC Thameslink route through
central London is closed - see the information on FCC's website he
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=64

We are flying back together early on Monday June 21 - plane takes off at
0910.

We plan to take the first tube from Walthamstow Central (0522) to Kings
Cross (0539) and then take either the 0602 or 0622 to Gatwick. I have never
been to that station complex. How much time should be allowed for changing
from the Victoria to FCC with potentionally very heavy luggage (depedning
on the amount of shopping carried out )?

We are staying at the Sleeping Beauty Motel at Bakers Arms / Lea Bridge
Road. How early do you think we should be at the bus stop outside the
hotel? "Planned engineering works are taking place" at some routes.

The Jouney Planner gives different results for "Bakers Arms / Lea Bridge
Road" and "Lea Bridge Road / Bakers Arms". I am not sure exactly what to
put into the planner to get buses serving stop EA which is right outside
the hotel. (See spider map
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...sarms-2157.pdf
..)

There's all sorts of other weird and wonderful ticket combinations
that I could dream up for you, but there's not a lot of point! Make
sure you both get Oyster cards, or otherwise buy Day Travelcards on
each day or indeed a weekly Travelcard depending on your proposed
travel patterns.

7 Day travelcards Zone 1-3 is the best option for us, especially since we
will start before 0930 on some days, with PAYG for the extra days and when
going to Downe [1] (yes, will remember to set OEP).

And enjoy yourselves!

Will do! Thanks!

(Lots of fun planned: Camden markets, concert at Barfly, The Comedy Store,
Notting Hill Market, The White Horse for the selection of beers, Wagamama,
museums, museums, and some more pubs

-----
[1] will travel back via Croydon for opportunity to check out the ELL

--
jhk

In message , at 19:22:11 on Mon,
17 May 2010, Theo Markettos
remarked:
There are lifts to the platforms at Gatwick, and I'm fairly sure there are
lifts from the FCC platforms at St Pancras. Are there lifts to the Victoria
line yet at KX St P?

Yes. Several lifts down to the lower-concourse and gate area. Another
lift down from the Northern tick hall to the lower passageways
(bypassing a long escalator) and a third short one down from the lower
passageways to the platform. Lots of horizontal walking, though.

I don't think there are any lifts onto the Victoria line at Victoria.

Correct.
--
Roland Perry

Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
We plan to take the first tube from Walthamstow Central (0522) to Kings
Cross (0539) and then take either the 0602 or 0622 to Gatwick. I have never
been to that station complex. How much time should be allowed for changing
from the Victoria to FCC with potentionally very heavy luggage (depedning
on the amount of shopping carried out )?

The official interchange time is 15 minutes, I think, but I might allow a
little more especially if you don't know the place. 23 mins should be fine.
It helps if you can buy a ticket in advance (which you can do at any manned
National Rail station up to 12 weeks ahead, or book online and collect from
a machine) so you don't have to traipse over to the machines/ticket office
(and queue, though I don't imagine there's much queue at 0540).

(If you have an Anytime Return then you'll already have a valid ticket
assuming you return within a month, so this might not be a problem. It only
applies if you're buying singles)

A rough guess at the walk, excluding lifts etc, would be at least 600m.

Aside to the regulars, if the OP has a 7 day travelcard, can he get a ticket
from Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick, and by which route would this ticket be
valid?

Theo

Theo Markettos wrote:

Aside to the regulars, if the OP has a 7 day travelcard, can he get a
ticket from Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick, and by which route would this
ticket be valid?

No, because he is starting at Gatwick, and such tickets can only be sold
'from' the zonal area.

Paul S