On May 29, 5:22*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 29 May 2010 06:54:31 -0700 (PDT), lonelytraveller



wrote:
On 29 May, 14:39, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"lonelytraveller" wrote

they managed to produce the victoria line pretty cheaply. I don't see
why its such a struggle to produce another line cheaply.

Too much on the cheap. Kings Cross was left as a fire trap. Several
stations, notably Victoria, Oxford Circus and Kings Cross were too small for
the number of passengers using them, and are having to be expensively
enlarged. Brixton needs three platforms to turn back the whole service, but
only has two. While there is good cross-platform interchange at Stockwell,
Oxford Circus, Euston, Highbury & Islington and Finsbury Park, interchange
at other stations, particularly Vauxhall and Green Park is as bad as it is
possible to make it.
In a choice between having the Victoria line, and not having it, which
would you prefer?

That's not really a sensible proposition though. I live on the Victoria
Line route so I am very pleased it exists. As Mr Masson pointed out the
Victoria Line was pared to the bone and we have had decades of
passengers being delayed due to inadequate capacity in stations and
massively overcrowded trains. *All that disbenefit - and it will amount
of hundreds of millions of pounds if not billions - just because they
wanted to save a few tens of millions in the 60s? *If the planners, back
in the 1960s, had been able to accurately estimate how patronage would
grow, the extent of people being delayed due to poor capacity and then
the massively expensive additional works that have been needed would
they ever have agreed to cut back the original scheme? *I doubt it very
much.

There is a real fallacy in building assets that will last for over 100
years for about 10 years worth of projected demand. *People complain
about the scale of somewhere like Canary Wharf JLE station but it can
handle huge numbers of people very effectively - it's in complete
contrast to somewhere like Victoria or Kings Cross which jam up or else
send people round corridors for 10 miles to spread the passenger load
out.

I appreciate that the government says it has to review projects - that
is its prerogative. At the same time it says it wants an entrepreneurial
economy and more private sector jobs. *The bit it seems to forget is
that those same entrepreneurs and private sector employees do need an
effective and efficient transport system to support their endeavours.
For London that means big schemes like Thameslink, tube upgrades and
Crossrail need to happen. *Similar schemes in the rest of the country
that improve city transport and inter-urban transport also have to
happen. *Condemning people to decades of car borne congestion and no
viable alternative is not sensible even if the money is very tight. *You
can sacrifice other things to allow capital investment to carry on -
provided you're sure you're getting it at a good price. *This is where
the frogs have to stop boiling in Network Rail's scoping and costing
departments and where cost has to be taken out in all of the
"interfaces" in the rail industry. *By all means send in the forensic
accountants and auditors to make our money go further.

--
Paul C

Aside from the omission of most of the central escalators in each
bank, don't suppose you have any details on what else was cut from the
original plans?

On 27 May, 19:55, allantracy wrote:

I don’t know why we bother with Europe, the whole thing is flawed, we
would be much better off with the dollar and become the 51st state and
we could go back to Imperial measurements far better than all this
foreign muck that no one wants.

You really are a prick, aren't you?

On Sat, 29 May 2010 11:03:49 -0700, Jamie Thompson wrote:

Aside from the omission of most of the central escalators in each bank,
don't suppose you have any details on what else was cut from the
original plans?

I'm pretty baffled that they've not been put in since? Is there any
reason why escalators couldn't replace the stairs? There are plenty of
places where they'd be a god-send.

On Sat, 29 May 2010 12:34:36 -0700 (PDT), contrex
wrote:

I don’t know why we bother with Europe, the whole thing is flawed, we
would be much better off with the dollar and become the 51st state and
we could go back to Imperial measurements far better than all this
foreign muck that no one wants.

You really are a prick, aren't you?

He certainly has an odd view. There are strong arguments in favour of
leaving the EU (and also strong arguments against doing so - I'm
personally pretty undecided), but I would be amazed if a referendum to
become the 51st state of America returned an even vaguely positive
result.

We should, IMO, either be in the EU or take an approach of
independence from it but co-operation with it like Switzerland.
Joining the US is a ridiculous idea - while we are historical allies
and should most probably remain so, our cultures are far too different
for political or monetary union to be an even vaguely sensible idea.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On Sat, 29 May 2010 19:35:28 +0000 (UTC), Martin Petrov
wrote:

I'm pretty baffled that they've not been put in since? Is there any
reason why escalators couldn't replace the stairs? There are plenty of
places where they'd be a god-send.

I thought the stairs were deliberate for those who preferred for
whatever reason not to use escalators, and to make them easier to walk
up/down in the case of escalator failure (smaller steps with landings
compared with an escalator, generally). A set of stairs were
installed replacing one escalator at Liverpool Central for a similar
reason (in the early 1990s).

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On 27 May, 19:55, allantracy wrote:

I don’t know why we bother with Europe, the whole thing is flawed, we
would be much better off with the dollar and become the 51st state and
we could go back toImperialmeasurements far better than all this
foreign muck that no one wants.

SI units are starting to appear on some things in the US, as opposed
to American units also being printed as a conversion to an odd
quantity in SI units. I have seen soft drinks in 2 litre and 3 litre
bottles for example. I suspect that a lot of engineering is actually
done in SI units; there's a lot of multi-national work being done
these days, and the US is about the only place left that still uses
their own units these days.

As for going back to Imperial units, where do you think you're going
to get any support for that? The UK has been metric for well over 30
years. Young people, and that now probably means anyone under 40 will
have learned in metric at school from day one, so they're unlikely to
want to convert to another system.

Older people like myself originally learned in Imperial units, and
later had to convert to metric. Having converted, I think most people
recognised that it was a better system, and would not want to go
back. Even amongst those who still prefer the Imperial units I think
that many would acknowledge that the period of conversion, which we
dragged out for far too long, was the worst thing, and wouldn't want
to see another such conversion back to imperial units. I seriously
doubt that you would be able to find many people to support such a
conversion, and I wouldn't recommend any party which actually wanted
to get elected to put this in its manifesto.

If you'd stood against metrication 40 years ago you might have had a
chance of stopping it, or more likely delaying it, but not now. I
think it will eventually come in the US as well.

As for Imperial units being British, I suspect that most of them are
about as British as St. George; i.e. not very.

On May 29, 8:43*pm, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Sat, 29 May 2010 19:35:28 +0000 (UTC), Martin Petrov

wrote:
I'm pretty baffled that they've not been put in since? Is there any
reason why escalators couldn't replace the stairs? There are plenty of
places where they'd be a god-send.

I thought the stairs were deliberate for those who preferred for
whatever reason not to use escalators, and to make them easier to walk
up/down in the case of escalator failure (smaller steps with landings
compared with an escalator, generally). *A set of stairs were
installed replacing one escalator at Liverpool Central for a similar
reason (in the early 1990s).


With all the problems with the escalators between from the National
Rail and LU at Euston, I wonder if we might see the middle staircase
here converted to an escalator. There is a new lift and alternative
stairs available now, so people who don't like escalators have a
choice, and it should save having to impose the one-way system (during
the peak) when an escalator is broken.

On Sat, 29 May 2010 14:58:55 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

With all the problems with the escalators between from the National
Rail and LU at Euston, I wonder if we might see the middle staircase
here converted to an escalator. There is a new lift and alternative
stairs available now, so people who don't like escalators have a
choice, and it should save having to impose the one-way system (during
the peak) when an escalator is broken.

I've seen the lifts but didn't notice any other stairs - are those by
the lifts? Might be inclined to use those as a good way to skip the
crowds, just like the very useful "emergency" staircase from the
Vic/Bank branch northbound platforms that I use pretty much every
time.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On May 29, 11:10*pm, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Sat, 29 May 2010 14:58:55 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

With all the problems with the escalators between from the National
Rail and LU at Euston, I wonder if we might see the middle staircase
here converted to an escalator. *There is a new lift and alternative
stairs available now, so people who don't like escalators have a
choice, and it should save having to impose the one-way system (during
the peak) when an escalator is broken.

I've seen the lifts but didn't notice any other stairs - are those by
the lifts? *Might be inclined to use those as a good way to skip the
crowds, just like the very useful "emergency" staircase from the
Vic/Bank branch northbound platforms that I use pretty much every
time.


Yes, the stairs are by the lift, If you go down the escalator from the
mainline concourse, you can see the lift and the bottom of the
staircase straight ahead. The stairs bring you out in the south west
corner of the concourse, by the exit closest to the Network Rail
offices.

On Fri, 28 May 2010 21:58:50 -0700, Nobody wrote:

Ah, the US liquid measurement isn't the same as Imperial.

I think it probably was, until the UK standardised the gallon in the
19th century as being that volume of water which weighs ten pounds.
Before that, I suspect that the gallon was identical on both sides of
the pond.