On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:06:07 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Which I suppose could be interpreted as 'we want the full scheme but
we want to pay less for it' - likewise, it could also be interpreted
as 'we want the full scheme but we definitely don't want any cost
overruns on it'.

As it the £15.9 bn headline figure is 3 times the actual estimate to
allow for "optimism bias" there really shouldn't be any overrun!

In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:
Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

... have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

--
Roland Perry

On Jun 15, 9:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.


I didn't mention which recession it might have recovered from :P

use the capacity that will be provided.

--
Roland Perry

On Jun 15, 1:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

Indeed so. Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

On Jun 15, 10:10*pm, E27002 wrote:
On Jun 15, 1:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

Indeed so. *Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. *One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

And the underlying trend is still that more capacity will be needed;
so to say that it would be OK to delay completion for longer than the
seven years already planned is not a good idea. Unless, of course, you
can predict better than politicians or economists where we will be in
the economic cycle once the line opens.

On Jun 15, 2:21*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 15, 10:10*pm, E27002 wrote:





On Jun 15, 1:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

Indeed so. *Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. *One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

And the underlying trend is still that more capacity will be needed;
so to say that it would be OK to delay completion for longer than the
seven years already planned is not a good idea. Unless, of course, you
can predict better than politicians or economists where we will be in
the economic cycle once the line opens.

:-) I make no such claim.

On Jun 15, 10:35*pm, E27002 wrote:
On Jun 15, 2:21*pm, Andy wrote:





On Jun 15, 10:10*pm, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 15, 1:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

Indeed so. *Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. *One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

And the underlying trend is still that more capacity will be needed;
so to say that it would be OK to delay completion for longer than the
seven years already planned is not a good idea. Unless, of course, you
can predict better than politicians or economists where we will be in
the economic cycle once the line opens.

:-) I make no such claim.

Well, you did claim

"Crossrail would not come into its own until there is a complete
economic recovery. That is likely to be some
years away."

Crossrail is already needed to relieve the eastern end of the Central
line, recession or not.

On Jun 15, 2:45*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 15, 10:35*pm, E27002 wrote:





On Jun 15, 2:21*pm, Andy wrote:

On Jun 15, 10:10*pm, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 15, 1:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

Indeed so. *Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. *One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

And the underlying trend is still that more capacity will be needed;
so to say that it would be OK to delay completion for longer than the
seven years already planned is not a good idea. Unless, of course, you
can predict better than politicians or economists where we will be in
the economic cycle once the line opens.

:-) I make no such claim.

Well, you did claim

"Crossrail would not come into its own until there is a complete
economic recovery. *That is likely to be some
years away."

Crossrail is already needed to relieve the eastern end of the Central
line, recession or not.

I did not know that was the case. In previous recessions the crush on
the TfL Central Line has eased. Either way, I am a firm believer in
Crossrail, and Thameslink n000, and Chelsea to Hackney, etc., etc.

As regards the current recession: I do not know when it will end.
However, the underlying issues, tight credit etc. are not easing.
Based on earlier recessions I think this one has to run its course.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:14:30 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:
Except for the extra Crossrail rolling stock needed to run the extra
twelve(ish) miles in each direction.

Offset by the EMUs not required to run the normal local service. If
they have any sense the Crossrail tunnel will be full size and any
EMU will fit - one would hope.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

On Jun 15, 10:54*pm, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 15, 2:45*pm, Andy wrote:
[snip]
Crossrail is already needed to relieve the eastern end of the Central
line, recession or not.

I did not know that was the case. *In previous recessions the crush on
the TfL Central Line has eased. *Either way, I am a firm believer in
Crossrail, and Thameslink n000, and Chelsea to Hackney, etc., etc.

I *think* the stretch of the Central line twixt Bethnal Green and
Liverpool Street is the most crowded bit of the whole Tube network.
Not sure about whether the numbers have eased off at all on the
Central line from say 2006/07 - I suppose they must have, for nothing
other than 'recessional' reasons (to totally repurpose a word!) - but
I understand it's still totally heaving in the peak (I try and limit
my direct experience of such things!) - and friends up Mile End and
Bethnal Green way don't even dream of going anywhere near it during
the rush hour.