My journey involves starting at 9:30am from Pinner and going to Forest
Hill. This is off peak.
I used to use southern from London bridge but now the East London line
as opened I can interchange at canada water.

I buy a YP discounted travel card for £5.00 PAPER TICKET
I return during the evening peak, for which my paper ticket is still
valid.

I have oyster PAYG which also has my YP card on it.

How would the cap work, if I make 2 journeys 1 off peak, and the other
peak, if I used my oyster card.

Oyster would be more convenient as I dont have to queue.


Also another note:

If there are 2 trains at new cross gate going southwards, one being
the LO service, and the other being a Southern Service, does the
Southern leave first heading towards Brockley, Honor Oak ... etc?

I asked a chap at New cross gate when I saw a southern train on the
adjacent platform and he said the LO would leave. total nonsense.
Heard the door sounds on the southern train and darted across and just
made it.

On Jun 20, 12:37 pm, GSV 3 minds in a can wrote:
My journey involves starting at 9:30am from Pinner and going to Forest
Hill. This is off peak.
I used to use southern from London bridge but now the East London line
as opened I can interchange at canada water.

I buy a YP discounted travel card for £5.00 PAPER TICKET
I return during the evening peak, for which my paper ticket is still
valid.

I have oyster PAYG which also has my YP card on it.

How would the cap work, if I make 2 journeys 1 off peak, and the other
peak, if I used my oyster card.

Oyster would be more convenient as I dont have to queue.

Simple answer - in your case using Oyster PAYG should cost no more
than buying a railcard-discounted off-peak Day Travelcard - i.e.
£5.00, and could cost you (drum roll please!) 20 pence less, i.e.
£4.80. I will explain...

You say you have your 16-25 (aka YP) Railcard discount loaded on your
Oyster card - this will give you a "A third off the off-peak Daily
price cap", as per the TfL website:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414....card%20holders

The undiscounted off-peak daily price cap for zones 1-6 is £7.50 - so
a third off that is £5.00. Note that for *capping purposes*, on a
weekday the off-peak period is from 09:30 until 04:29 the next day.

A return journey from Pinner to Forest Hill could well result in you
hitting that cap, depending upon when exactly you travel and what
route you use. I will elaborate - note that I've sourced the fares
information from the TfL Fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/


Note that there is a drop-down box to the right, labelled "Type",
which shows "Adult" as the default - go to it and select "National
Railcard" instead.

Enter Pinner as the origin and Forest Hill as the destination. On the
results page there will be a button that says "Alternative fares" -
click on this and you'll be shown two route options.

The first fare - £3.80 peak/ £2.40 off-peak - is the 'pure' TfL fare,
as this involves a journey on TfL services only*, i.e. via the Met and
Jubilee lines and then LO ELL from Canada Water to Forest Hill. Note
that for PAYG single journey purposes (as opposed to daily capping
purposes), the peak rate applies from 06:30-09:30 and 16:00-19:00 on
weekdays.

If you change what's in the drop-down box you'll see that you don't
actually benefit from any railcard-discount on this (railcard
discounts don't apply to the pure TfL rate).

(*Though if one was to travel on Southern between Forest Hill and New
Cross Gate, that'd be perfectly legit - what I mean is that the
journey is charged at the TfL rate throughout.)

The second fare - £5.00 peak/ £2.45 off-peak - is the through NR/TfL
fare, and involves travel via Southern and London Bridge. Here the off-
peak fare (but *not* the peak fare) does attract the third-off
railcard-discount - the undiscounted fare being £3.70.

So as I said depending on when you travel and what route you take
(i.e. via London Bridge or Canada Water) you could pay £4.80, £4.85,
£4.90 or £5.00. If you're journey back starts in the evening PAYG peak
period (16:00 to 19:00) you'll pay £5.00, as that's the railcard-
discounted daily cap.

Hope that helps and your brain hasn't melted!

Do remember to touch-in and touch out - oh, and the peak/off-peak rate
applies to when you touch-in to start the journey - so if you touch in
at say 15:59, you'll travel at the PAYG off-peak rate.


Also another note:

If there are 2 trains at new cross gate going southwards, one being
the LO service, and the other being a Southern Service, does the
Southern leave first heading towards Brockley, Honor Oak ... etc?

I asked a chap at New cross gate when I saw a southern train on the
adjacent platform and he said the LO would leave. total nonsense.
Heard the door sounds on the southern train and darted across and just
made it.

There's no rule here - whichever train is timetabled to go first down
the line towards Brockley etc will be the one that leaves first.
Unless there's some sort of service disruption, in which case,
whichever one the signaller thinks should go first I suppose. I dare
say the staff on the platform are likely to be as in the dark as
anyone else is!

On Jun 20, 1:50*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 20, 12:37 pm, GSV 3 minds in a can wrote:
My journey involves starting at 9:30am from Pinner and going to Forest
Hill. This is off peak.

I dunno if you're bound for the rather splendid and eclectic Horniman
Museum but I'll take this opportunity to give it a plug, as it's
certainly a good reason to head down (or up) to Forest Hill for. The
adjacent gardens are worth a stroll in too - good views over London
town from the top of the hill.

Mo
http://www.horniman.ac.uk/

In article
,
(GSV 3 minds in a can) wrote:

My journey involves starting at 9:30am from Pinner and going to Forest
Hill. This is off peak.
I used to use southern from London bridge but now the East London line
as opened I can interchange at canada water.

I buy a YP discounted travel card for £5.00 PAPER TICKET
I return during the evening peak, for which my paper ticket is still
valid.

I have oyster PAYG which also has my YP card on it.

How would the cap work, if I make 2 journeys 1 off peak, and the other
peak, if I used my oyster card.

Oyster would be more convenient as I dont have to queue.

If your first journey starts after 09:30 the off-peak cap applies, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"GSV 3 minds in a can" wrote in message
...

Also another note:

If there are 2 trains at new cross gate going southwards, one being
the LO service, and the other being a Southern Service, does the
Southern leave first heading towards Brockley, Honor Oak ... etc?

I asked a chap at New cross gate when I saw a southern train on the
adjacent platform and he said the LO would leave. total nonsense.
Heard the door sounds on the southern train and darted across and just
made it.

I don't recall how far south of the station the LO track joins the
route from London Bridge. In perfect world there will be signals at the
south ends of both platforms, and only one of them can be cleared from red
to allow a train to proceed. Your problem will be that when you arrive both
trains have a red signal and as soon as one signal clears that train will
take off.

--
DAS

"David A Stocks" writes:

I don't recall how far south of the station the LO track joins the
route from London Bridge. In perfect world there will be signals at
the south ends of both platforms, and only one of them can be cleared
from red to allow a train to proceed. Your problem will be that when
you arrive both trains have a red signal and as soon as one signal
clears that train will take off.

And there would be an indicator, like those at some 'underground'
stations indicating which train will be departing first.

On Jun 20, 2:48*pm, wrote:

In article
,
(GSV 3 minds in a can) wrote:

My journey involves starting at 9:30am from Pinner and going to Forest
Hill. This is off peak.
I used to use southern from London bridge but now the East London line
as opened I can interchange at canada water.

I buy a YP discounted travel card for 5.00 PAPER TICKET
I return during the evening peak, for which my paper ticket is still
valid.

I have oyster PAYG which also has my YP card on it.

How would the cap work, if I make 2 journeys 1 off peak, and the other
peak, if I used my oyster card.

Oyster would be more convenient as I dont have to queue.

If your first journey starts after 09:30 the off-peak cap applies, surely?

Yes. See my (possibly over-comprehensive?) answer.

The important thing to note is that in the Oyster world there are two
definitions of peak and off-peak...

* that which applies to capping - in this case, on weekdays off-peak
runs from 09:30 to 04:29 the next day. This is basically the same as
the Day Travelcards peak/ off-peak period [1].

* that which applies to single PAYG fares - in this case, on weekdays
peak fares apply from 06:30 to 09:30 and from 16:00 to 19:00.
(Therefore a peak PAYG fare can still contribute towards an off-peak
cap - which might sound confusing, but it's far better it happens that
way than not!)

-----
[1] Day Travelcards do have a slightly different period of validity to
daily price capping - the price capping regime applies to the 24 hour
period between 04:30 and 04:29 the next day, whilst Day Travelcards
are valid from midnight on the date they're issued for until 04:29 the
next day. I've just about been on the ball enough to take advantage of
this a few times in the past (when I knew I'd be out late the next
night).

On Jun 20, 3:05*pm, "David A Stocks" wrote:

"GSV 3 minds in a can" wrote:

Also another note:
If there are 2 trains at new cross gate going southwards, one being
the LO service, and the other being a Southern Service, does the
Southern leave first heading towards Brockley, Honor Oak ... etc?
I asked a chap at New cross gate when I saw a southern train on the
adjacent platform and he said the LO would leave. total nonsense.
Heard the door sounds on the southern train and darted across and just
made it.

I don't recall how far south of the station the LO track joins the
route from London Bridge. In perfect world there will be signals at the
south ends of both platforms, and only one of them can be cleared from red
to allow a train to proceed. Your problem will be that when you arrive both
trains have a red signal and as soon as one signal clears that train will
take off.

The junction is perhaps 250 metres south of NX Gate station - not far.

On 20 June, 15:20, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:05*pm, "David A Stocks" wrote:





"GSV 3 minds in a can" wrote:

Also another note:
If there are 2 trains at new cross gate going southwards, one being
the LO service, and the other being a Southern Service, does the
Southern leave first heading towards Brockley, Honor Oak ... etc?
I asked a chap at New cross gate when I saw a southern train on the
adjacent platform and he said the LO would leave. total nonsense.
Heard the door sounds on the southern train and darted across and just
made it.

I don't recall how far south of the station the LO track joins the
route from London Bridge. In perfect world there will be signals at the
south ends of both platforms, and only one of them can be cleared from red
to allow a train to proceed. Your problem will be that when you arrive both
trains have a red signal and as soon as one signal clears that train will
take off.

The junction is perhaps 250 metres south of NX Gate station - not far.

They should be able to leave together if the Southern is crossing to
the fast track (although they can serve NXG on the fast tracks
anyway), but then it couldn't be serving Brockley.

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On 20 June, 15:20, Mizter T wrote:

The junction is perhaps 250 metres south of NX Gate station - not far.

They should be able to leave together if the Southern is crossing to
the fast track (although they can serve NXG on the fast tracks
anyway), but then it couldn't be serving Brockley.

There don't seem to be any trains booked to call at New Cross Gate and then
run fast to Norwood Junction or the Croydon stations - so any train from
either platform is going to stop at Brockley, Honor Oak Park and Forest
Hill.

Peter