On Jun 26, 6:43*pm, E27002 wrote:
On Jun 26, 4:38*am, Mizter T wrote:





On Jun 26, 10:22*am, jon b wrote:

On 26 June, 10:09, MIG wrote:

If it isn't complete nonsense, I'll eat my dinner.

They have merged two snippets into one I expect.

Indeed complete nonsense! *H&C / Met / District / Circle line stock
will be replaced with S stock, starting from later this year -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_S_Stock

It's just confusion between the new class 378s (as used by London
Overground on the NLL, WLL and ELL) and the upcoming LU S-stock -
there are a fair number of similarities, though ultimately they're
rather different trains.

It surprises me that TfL could not come up with a common design for
Overground and sub-surface stock.

Why? The infrastructure on which the two types of stock will run is
quite different. The LO class 378s need 25kV AC supply as well as DC
(for the units on the North London Line) and run on routes which can
take 20m coaches. The S stock will be DC only, and parts of the route
would struggle to take the longer 20m vehicles seen on the class 378s
(the S stock is 16.7m per coach).

E27002 wrote:

It surprises me that TfL could not come up with a common design for
Overground and sub-surface stock.

They could. It would just be inappropriate for the surface routes.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632789.html
(25 214 at Lichfield Trent Valley Low Level, Aug 1982)

On 26/06/2010 11:54, Richard J. wrote:
CJB wrote on 26 June 2010 09:51:03 ...
Crossrail work closes section of Circle line for three weeks
Ross Lydall
25.06.10

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...three-weeks.do

[snip]
The work includes platform lengthening to accommodate new air-
conditioned trains. They are in service on the East London line and
London Overground, and will start running on the Metropolitan line in
weeks.

Ross Lydall is, I think, the Standard's local government "expert", but
quite often writes on transport matters. You'd think he would realise by
now that (1) the ELL is part of London Overground, and (2) their trains
are not the same as the S-stock to be introduced on LU sub-surface lines.

I suspect (but can't prove!) that one might struggle to find many
normals who understand what London Overground is, and how it relates to
"the tube" and "overground trains".

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 26/06/2010 18:43, E27002 wrote:
On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Mizter wrote:
On Jun 26, 10:22 am, jon wrote:

On 26 June, 10:09, wrote:

If it isn't complete nonsense, I'll eat my dinner.

They have merged two snippets into one I expect.

Indeed complete nonsense! H&C / Met / District / Circle line stock
will be replaced with S stock, starting from later this year -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_S_Stock

It's just confusion between the new class 378s (as used by London
Overground on the NLL, WLL and ELL) and the upcoming LU S-stock -
there are a fair number of similarities, though ultimately they're
rather different trains.

It surprises me that TfL could not come up with a common design for
Overground and sub-surface stock.

They tried that with the 83 stock on the Jubilee line, making it look
like the tube version of D stock.

On 26 June, 19:29, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:
E27002 wrote:
It surprises me that TfL could not come up with a common design for
Overground and sub-surface stock.

They could. It would just be inappropriate for the surface routes.


And passengers. I expect there will be a lot of overcrowding on
Chiltern once the S stock is introduced.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:54:13 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Yes the H&C will close for 3 weeks or so and yes the Circle Line will
return. I expect Mr Lydall will be holding a celebratory party as he has
taken every opportunity to moan about the revised service pattern since
it was introduced.

Can I add my own moan, then? I have no issues with the service
pattern, but having experienced it for a week, the situation at the
Paddington "H&C" platforms is both dangerous and inconvenient.

One day it took about 10 minutes to get off the platform. That is not
acceptable.

(As an aside, why are fGW, who I assume operate the barrier lines in
this area, so obsessed with revenue? It is LM policy, and very
sensible it is too, to open barriers in any situation where they are
causing substantial delays to passengers or dangerous overcrowding
levels. fGW/LUL seem rather reluctant to do this).

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On Jun 28, 8:44*am, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:54:13 +0100, Paul Corfield

wrote:
Yes the H&C will close for 3 weeks or so and yes the Circle Line will
return. I expect Mr Lydall will be holding a celebratory party as he has
taken every opportunity to moan about the revised service pattern since
it was introduced.

Can I add my own moan, then? *I have no issues with the service
pattern, but having experienced it for a week, the situation at the
Paddington "H&C" platforms is both dangerous and inconvenient.

One day it took about 10 minutes to get off the platform. *That is not
acceptable.

(As an aside, why are fGW, who I assume operate the barrier lines in
this area, so obsessed with revenue? *It is LM policy, and very
sensible it is too, to open barriers in any situation where they are
causing substantial delays to passengers or dangerous overcrowding
levels. *fGW/LUL seem rather reluctant to do this).

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

The over crowding is also dangerous along platform 12. There are Cross-
Rail excavations half-way along that block of most of the width of 12
- causing a real pinch point. In the rush hour Reading trains usually
leave from 13/14. With the usual last minute announcements of platform
departures this means that invariably there is a crowded rush along 12
to get to 13/14. If a train arrives at 13/14 at the same time
disembarking pax tend to go along 12 to the FGW gateline. But then the
two opposing streams of pax meet at the pinch point on 12. This is
dangersously exacerbated if a CONnect comes in at 12 too, adding to
chaos passengers disembarking from the CON, to say nothing of those
wanting to board it.

Complaints to Westminster H&SE and FGW and National Rail and BAA
(CONnect) are all ignored. But soon someone is going to be pushed onto
the tracks, hopefully not in front of an arriving CONnect.

CJB.

On Jun 28, 8:44*am, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:54:13 +0100, Paul Corfield

wrote:
Yes the H&C will close for 3 weeks or so and yes the Circle Line will
return. I expect Mr Lydall will be holding a celebratory party as he has
taken every opportunity to moan about the revised service pattern since
it was introduced.

Can I add my own moan, then? *I have no issues with the service
pattern, but having experienced it for a week, the situation at the
Paddington "H&C" platforms is both dangerous and inconvenient.

One day it took about 10 minutes to get off the platform. *That is not
acceptable.

The potential for a rather slow exit from the H&C platforms was
something foreseen by many. I was a bit surprised that the 'Teacup
line' (to which I have no fundamental objection to) went ahead without
any changes at Paddington.


(As an aside, why are fGW, who I assume operate the barrier lines in
this area, so obsessed with revenue? *It is LM policy, and very
sensible it is too, to open barriers in any situation where they are
causing substantial delays to passengers or dangerous overcrowding
levels. *fGW/LUL seem rather reluctant to do this).

FGW are indeed in charge of the (repositioned) gateline now.

One potential way to avoid such gateline hold-ups would be to head
down the stairs from the overbridge onto platforms 13/14, then walk
down the length of platform 12 to the concourse. Not much good if you
want to stay on the overbridge of course (e.g. to catch a mainline
train!).

On Jun 28, 9:59*am, CJB wrote:

On Jun 28, 8:44*am, Neil Williams
wrote:
[snip]
Can I add my own moan, then? *I have no issues with the service
pattern, but having experienced it for a week, the situation at the
Paddington "H&C" platforms is both dangerous and inconvenient.

One day it took about 10 minutes to get off the platform. *That is not
acceptable.

(As an aside, why are fGW, who I assume operate the barrier lines in
this area, so obsessed with revenue? *It is LM policy, and very
sensible it is too, to open barriers in any situation where they are
causing substantial delays to passengers or dangerous overcrowding
levels. *fGW/LUL seem rather reluctant to do this).

The over crowding is also dangerous along platform 12. There are Cross-
Rail excavations half-way along that block of most of the width of 12
- causing a real pinch point. In the rush hour Reading trains usually
leave from 13/14. With the usual last minute announcements of platform
departures this means that invariably there is a crowded rush along 12
to get to 13/14. If a train arrives at 13/14 at the same time
disembarking pax tend to go along 12 to the FGW gateline. But then the
two opposing streams of pax meet at the pinch point on 12. This is
dangersously exacerbated if a CONnect comes in at 12 too, adding to
chaos passengers disembarking from the CON, to say nothing of those
wanting to board it.

Complaints to Westminster H&SE and FGW and National Rail and BAA
(CONnect) are all ignored. But soon someone is going to be pushed onto
the tracks, hopefully not in front of an arriving CONnect.

If you really do want to complain, then I suggest Network Rail first -
as they manage the station - or else the ORR (Office of Rail
Regulation), who are the safety regulator for the railways (and these
days incorporate the HMRI).

Westminster Council aren't going to take it up as it's simply not part
of their remit (note that Westminster's H&S people are quite distinct
from the standalone entity that is the H&SE/HSE - the Health & Safety
Executive - also note that, broadly speaking, the HSE don't deal with
the railways any more - that's the ORR's job.)

FGW should take some notice though, given they're the main operator at
Paddington (perhaps your complaints have been noted in their log
though).

Contact info...

Network Rail Paddington info (shows they manage the station):
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/935.aspx

Network Rail contact info:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/1346.aspx

ORR contact info:
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.27

On Jun 26, 11:14*am, Andy wrote:
On Jun 26, 6:43*pm, E27002 wrote:





On Jun 26, 4:38*am, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 26, 10:22*am, jon b wrote:

On 26 June, 10:09, MIG wrote:

If it isn't complete nonsense, I'll eat my dinner.

They have merged two snippets into one I expect.

Indeed complete nonsense! *H&C / Met / District / Circle line stock
will be replaced with S stock, starting from later this year -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_S_Stock

It's just confusion between the new class 378s (as used by London
Overground on the NLL, WLL and ELL) and the upcoming LU S-stock -
there are a fair number of similarities, though ultimately they're
rather different trains.

It surprises me that TfL could not come up with a common design for
Overground and sub-surface stock.

Why? The infrastructure on which the two types of stock will run is
quite different. The LO class 378s need 25kV AC supply as well as DC
(for the units on the North London Line) and run on routes which can
take 20m coaches. The S stock will be DC only, and parts of the route
would struggle to take the longer 20m vehicles seen on the class 378s
(the S stock is 16.7m per coach).

The ELL is DC only. I suspect that "S" Stock might function well
there. It will certain share the Richmond Corner of the District and
NLL with 378s. Although I take your point: The ELL has to go with
some sort of stock and commonality with the NLL makes some sense.