"MIG" wrote in message
...

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through.

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking (approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...

Paul S

On 21 July, 21:22, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

...

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. *I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. *On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through..

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? *Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking (approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? *Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...

Paul S

There's a couple of significant differences in layout. Firstly, the
connection would have to be north of the station and run through the
existing NR platforms. At NXG the ELL southbound can come into its
own parallel platform before continuing south, rather than be held
outside. I can't see any way of extending the ELL platform at NX.

The other difference is that at NXG, the tracks are paired by
direction, so the flyover from the outer track works fine. At NX, the
tracks are effectively paired by terminus, ie Charing Cross v Cannon
Street.

A flyover would take services away from Charing Cross and they
couldn't stop at NX, but the southbound service would replace services
from Cannon Street.

A flat junction on the Cannon Street side might be able to work
without huge disruption, but when it comes to it I'm not sure that I'd
want yet more services diverted to Hackney instead of London Bridge
and beyond.

On 21 July, 21:22, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

...

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. *I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. *On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through..

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? *Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking (approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? *Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...


I'm pretty sure there's aren't any 'serious proposals',.
unfortunately.

New Cross ELL doesn't exist to serve a local population (given how
close New Cross Gate and other stations are). It exists to turn trains
around for operational reasons.

As I understand it, New Cross ELL is essentially a third platform at
New Cross Gate, used for terminating/reversing trains - at least
that's how TfL see it.

However... if the thinking around the purpose of New Cross ELL could
be changed, then extending the line would open up all sorts of
possibilities.

The biggest obstacle would probably be capacity at New Cross if it
became a through service, requiring two dedicated ELL platforms. But
once this is overcome, an extension to Lewisham could mean that South
Eastern trains don't need to call at St. John's, so that could become
a dedicated ELL station.

Beyond Lewisham it could perhaps take over the Bromley North branch.
That would be a good little route. Currently getting from Lewisham
onto the southbound ELL is hugely inconvenenient. Through services
would mean one fewer change and much improved journey times.

Another possible problem would be the bottlenecking of Surrey Quays,
which would probably end up with a fantasticly frequent northbound
service for anyone who happened to live there, but would really need
serious upgrading to handle the traffic of three feeder lines,
probably to a 4-platform layout.

But in theory it's a highly desirable proposition.

BTN

On 28 July, 12:56, SirBenjamin wrote:
On 21 July, 21:22, "Paul Scott"
wrote:





"MIG" wrote in message

....

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. *I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. *On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through.

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? *Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking (approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? *Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...

I'm pretty sure there's aren't any 'serious proposals',.
unfortunately.

New Cross ELL doesn't exist to serve a local population (given how
close New Cross Gate and other stations are). It exists to turn trains
around for operational reasons.

Not actually true. There's a large flow of students to Goldsmiths,
for example, some of them finding cheap lodgings in places like
Hackney and Whitechapel.


As I understand it, New Cross ELL is essentially a third platform at
New Cross Gate, used for terminating/reversing trains - at least
that's how TfL see it.

However... if the thinking around the purpose of New Cross ELL could
be changed, then extending the line would open up all sorts of
possibilities.

The biggest obstacle would probably be capacity at New Cross if it
became a through service, requiring two dedicated ELL platforms. But
once this is overcome, an extension to Lewisham could mean that South
Eastern trains don't need to call at St. John's, so that could become
a dedicated ELL station.

Bollox. Why should people at St Johns lose their service to central
London? Leave St Johns alone and don't believe the stupid myths. By
the way, nothing ever stops at Watford Junction because my regular
train doesn't.


Beyond Lewisham it could perhaps take over the Bromley North branch.
That would be a good little route. Currently getting from Lewisham
onto the southbound ELL is hugely inconvenenient. Through services
would mean one fewer change and much improved journey times.

But there would need to be paths and a suitable track arrangement (see
my other post).



Another possible problem would be the bottlenecking of Surrey Quays,
which would probably end up with a fantasticly frequent northbound
service for anyone who happened to live there, but would really need
serious upgrading to handle the traffic of three feeder lines,
probably to a 4-platform layout.

But in theory it's a highly desirable proposition.

BTN- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 28 July, 12:56, SirBenjamin wrote:
On 21 July, 21:22, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



"MIG" wrote in message

....

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. *I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. *On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through.

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? *Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking (approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? *Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...

I'm pretty sure there's aren't any 'serious proposals',.
unfortunately.

New Cross ELL doesn't exist to serve a local population (given how
close New Cross Gate and other stations are). It exists to turn trains
around for operational reasons.

As I understand it, New Cross ELL is essentially a third platform at
New Cross Gate, used for terminating/reversing trains - at least
that's how TfL see it.

However... if the thinking around the purpose of New Cross ELL could
be changed, then extending the line would open up all sorts of
possibilities.

The biggest obstacle would probably be capacity at New Cross if it
became a through service, requiring two dedicated ELL platforms. But
once this is overcome, an extension to Lewisham could mean that South
Eastern trains don't need to call at St. John's, so that could become
a dedicated ELL station.

Beyond Lewisham it could perhaps take over the Bromley North branch.
That would be a good little route. Currently getting from Lewisham
onto the southbound ELL is hugely inconvenenient. Through services
would mean one fewer change and much improved journey times.

Another possible problem would be the bottlenecking of Surrey Quays,
which would probably end up with a fantasticly frequent northbound
service for anyone who happened to live there, but would really need
serious upgrading to handle the traffic of three feeder lines,
probably to a 4-platform layout.

But in theory it's a highly desirable proposition.

BTN

Once upon a time there was a connection from the ELL to New Cross down
through platform, and another connection from the up side (fast) to
the ELL, merging close to Canal Junction. Both were removed in the
1960s.

"Dr. Sunil" wrote in message
...
On 28 July, 12:56, SirBenjamin wrote:
On 21 July, 21:22, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



"MIG" wrote in message

...

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through.

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking
(approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general
direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...

I'm pretty sure there's aren't any 'serious proposals',.
unfortunately.

New Cross ELL doesn't exist to serve a local population (given how
close New Cross Gate and other stations are). It exists to turn trains
around for operational reasons.

As I understand it, New Cross ELL is essentially a third platform at
New Cross Gate, used for terminating/reversing trains - at least
that's how TfL see it.

However... if the thinking around the purpose of New Cross ELL could
be changed, then extending the line would open up all sorts of
possibilities.

The biggest obstacle would probably be capacity at New Cross if it
became a through service, requiring two dedicated ELL platforms. But
once this is overcome, an extension to Lewisham could mean that South
Eastern trains don't need to call at St. John's, so that could become
a dedicated ELL station.

Beyond Lewisham it could perhaps take over the Bromley North branch.
That would be a good little route. Currently getting from Lewisham
onto the southbound ELL is hugely inconvenenient. Through services
would mean one fewer change and much improved journey times.

Another possible problem would be the bottlenecking of Surrey Quays,
which would probably end up with a fantasticly frequent northbound
service for anyone who happened to live there, but would really need
serious upgrading to handle the traffic of three feeder lines,
probably to a 4-platform layout.

But in theory it's a highly desirable proposition.

BTN

Once upon a time there was a connection from the ELL to New Cross down
through platform, and another connection from the up side (fast) to
the ELL, merging close to Canal Junction. Both were removed in the
1960s.

-----------

The track bed is still there but a signal "sub station" was put there as
part of the LB resignalling in 1976.

MaxB

On 28 July, 18:44, "Batman55" wrote:
"Dr. Sunil" wrote in message

...
On 28 July, 12:56, SirBenjamin wrote:





On 21 July, 21:22, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message

...

Obviously, it makes a lot of difference whether the train is due to go
and whether any feeding NR trains have arrived from the south since
the last one left. I suspect most ELL users at New Cross may be local
rather than changing, but that would take a lot of standing around to
verify. On the other branch, people do seem to be travelling through.

Does anyone know if there have ever been any serious proposals to extend
that leg of the ELL further? Despite a new up direction flyover being a
fairly obvious requirement, and a bit more double tracking
(approximately
where the old depot was), surely an ELL extension in the general
direction
of Lewisham would be a lower cost option than for example Bakerloo
extensions? Of course it depends to an extent on transfer to other lines
but Crossrail should help there...

I'm pretty sure there's aren't any 'serious proposals',.
unfortunately.

New Cross ELL doesn't exist to serve a local population (given how
close New Cross Gate and other stations are). It exists to turn trains
around for operational reasons.

As I understand it, New Cross ELL is essentially a third platform at
New Cross Gate, used for terminating/reversing trains - at least
that's how TfL see it.

However... if the thinking around the purpose of New Cross ELL could
be changed, then extending the line would open up all sorts of
possibilities.

The biggest obstacle would probably be capacity at New Cross if it
became a through service, requiring two dedicated ELL platforms. But
once this is overcome, an extension to Lewisham could mean that South
Eastern trains don't need to call at St. John's, so that could become
a dedicated ELL station.

Beyond Lewisham it could perhaps take over the Bromley North branch.
That would be a good little route. Currently getting from Lewisham
onto the southbound ELL is hugely inconvenenient. Through services
would mean one fewer change and much improved journey times.

Another possible problem would be the bottlenecking of Surrey Quays,
which would probably end up with a fantasticly frequent northbound
service for anyone who happened to live there, but would really need
serious upgrading to handle the traffic of three feeder lines,
probably to a 4-platform layout.

But in theory it's a highly desirable proposition.

BTN

Once upon a time there was a connection from the ELL to New Cross down
through platform, and another connection from the up side (fast) to
the ELL, merging close to Canal Junction. Both were removed in the
1960s.

-----------

The track bed is still there but a signal "sub station" was put there as
part of the LB resignalling in 1976.

MaxB-

Also, in those days there would have been platforms on that side of
the tracks, but now there aren't, so the connection on the "fast" side
wouldn't be much use.

If it's not practical to provide East London Line service to Leaisham,
how about he suggestion I made previously to e-open Brockly Lane
station, so at least it could be reached by one change there?

On Jul 30, 2:28*pm, wrote:
If it's not practical to provide East London Line service to [Lewisham],
how about he suggestion I made previously to e-open [Brockley] Lane
station, so at least it could be reached by one change there?

In terms of any cost-benefit analysis, the possible re-opening of
Brockley Lane wouldn't come in anywhere even remotely near the top of
a 'dream schemes' list for transport improvements in London I'm
afraid.

Somewhat further up that hypothetical list would be an improvement to
the half-hourly Victoria-Dartford service that uses that line -
currently it's Mon-Sat only, ends early at around 8pm (and starts a
little late too).

Those heading to Lewisham can also use the bus from either NX or NXG
to get there, or if coming from points north on the ELL could switch
to the DLR at Shadwell for Lewisham.

On 30 July, 15:07, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:28*pm, wrote:

If it's not practical to provide East London Line service to [Lewisham],
how about he suggestion I made previously to e-open [Brockley] Lane
station, so at least it could be reached by one change there?

In terms of any cost-benefit analysis, the possible re-opening of
Brockley Lane wouldn't come in anywhere even remotely near the top of
a 'dream schemes' list for transport improvements in London I'm
afraid.

Somewhat further up that hypothetical list would be an improvement to
the half-hourly Victoria-Dartford service that uses that line -
currently it's Mon-Sat only, ends early at around 8pm (and starts a
little late too).

Those heading to Lewisham can also use the bus from either NX or NXG
to get there, or if coming from points north on the ELL could switch
to the DLR at Shadwell for Lewisham.

Opening a station at Brixton on that route would be more useful, but
also ain't gonna happen.