In message k, at
13:43:24 on Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Stimpy remarked:
The worms only appear if (for example) you have a phone switched into
"flight mode" (so no calls are possible) being used for something else
(perhaps as a camera) while you are "at the wheel". Note that the law
also does not discriminate between the situations of bowling along a
motorway at 70mph versus being sat at (ObRail) a level crossing with the
gates closed, the gearbox in "park", while you snap a passing train.

But a police officer does discriminate between the two.

Only when it suits them. It's a very dangerous situation when there are
laws that TPTB says "but we will never use them like that". Which is
pretty much where we are today with many officers' interpretation of the
terrorist/photography laws.

Does the PC have sufficient knowledge to distinguish between a driver holding
an iPhone whilst using the iPod function and holding the same iPhone the same
way whilst using the phone and loudspeaker?

Both are prohibited. I thought the discrimination referred to above was
the situation of the driver - eg. 70mph versus stationary.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Adrian
writes
I'm really not sure that the link between "exceeding the speed limit" and
"drivers who have little thought for others" is anywhere _near_ that kind
of clear-cut correlation...
I've used to drive the M6 between J8 and J40 regularly, and it struck me
that there are cars on the legal limit, both overtaking and undertaking
other drivers (especially where the traffic is slow moving), dodging
lane to lane, then there are Porsche drivers that are driving in lane 3
doing 90 mph.
I know which I think is the greater menace, unfortunately, cameras
don't.
--
Clive

In message , Graeme
writes
You are wrong actually, driving while using a phone is actually a lot more
dangerous than simply speeding. Even using a handsfree kit is not that
effective in reducing the danger. The problem is that concentrating on the
phone call is a major distraction from paying attention to driving
conditions. Psychologically it is a lot different to just talking to another
person in the car with you.
It's possible that this law is not well respected because some officers
have been over aggressive and prosecuted drivers that have pulled over
to take a call at the side of the road safely.
--
Clive

In message
Clive wrote:

In message , Adrian
writes
I'm really not sure that the link between "exceeding the speed limit" and
"drivers who have little thought for others" is anywhere _near_ that kind
of clear-cut correlation...
I've used to drive the M6 between J8 and J40 regularly, and it struck me
that there are cars on the legal limit, both overtaking and undertaking
other drivers (especially where the traffic is slow moving), dodging
lane to lane, then there are Porsche drivers that are driving in lane 3
doing 90 mph.
I know which I think is the greater menace, unfortunately, cameras
don't.

Statistically the Porsches are the safest. The most dangerous is the idiot
doing 45 in a first generation Escort in the middle lane.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

In message
,
Jeff writes
But that was how society worked. The law changed to reflect altered
views of what is right and society continues to work.
Part of the problem is that the "law" didn't change, it was added to,
hence isn't moving with the times.
--
Clive

In message
Clive wrote:

In message , Graeme
writes
You are wrong actually, driving while using a phone is actually a lot
more dangerous than simply speeding. Even using a handsfree kit is not
that effective in reducing the danger. The problem is that concentrating
on the phone call is a major distraction from paying attention to driving
conditions. Psychologically it is a lot different to just talking to
another person in the car with you.
It's possible that this law is not well respected because some officers
have been over aggressive and prosecuted drivers that have pulled over to
take a call at the side of the road safely.

You have to switch the engine off to be legal, that's the bit most people
forget.

But I don't think that's the reason it gets ignored, most people still don't
seem to realise it is illegal or if they do they don't seem to think it
applies to them. There is still a hard core that can't be bothered to wear a
seatbelt and that's been a legal requirement for decades now.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

On 03/08/2010 16:56, Graeme wrote:
It's possible that this law is not well respected because some officers
have been over aggressive and prosecuted drivers that have pulled over to
take a call at the side of the road safely.
You have to switch the engine off to be legal, that's the bit most people
forget.

I was told that you should also get out of the vehicle to make/take the
call, so that it's impossible to be accused of driving while using the
mobile. On a similar theme, my GP suggested that once I started using
insulin to control my blood-glucose levels, if I felt a hypo coming on
that I should pull over, switch off the engine, remove the keys and, if
possible, move over to the passenger seat while I sort out the problem
(but I should avoid leaving the vehicle).

--
Dave,
Frodsham
http://dave-jackson.fotopic.net

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:53:03 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:24:43 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
You can't have it both ways. Either the speed restrictions are there
to protect the workers or they're not. If they are and there's no
workers then why are there still speed restrictions? If they're not
to protect the workers then what exactly are they for?

And don't even suggest that switching off the cameras at knocking off
time would be an arduous task to implement.

Often there are also narrowed lanes next to motorway roadworks with
50mph limits, so it wouldn't be safe to drive at 70mph, whether or not
there are any roadworkers present.

Often however there arn't - its just a lane closed off and nothing else
changed.

A lane closed off reduces the overall road width and often also
involves the unavailability of the hard shoulder with a consequent
risk to/caused by broken down vehicles and occupants.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:56:31 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
Clive wrote:

In message , Graeme
writes
You are wrong actually, driving while using a phone is actually a lot
more dangerous than simply speeding. Even using a handsfree kit is not
that effective in reducing the danger. The problem is that concentrating
on the phone call is a major distraction from paying attention to driving
conditions. Psychologically it is a lot different to just talking to
another person in the car with you.
It's possible that this law is not well respected because some officers
have been over aggressive and prosecuted drivers that have pulled over to
take a call at the side of the road safely.

You have to switch the engine off to be legal, that's the bit most people
forget.

AFAICT that is not a statutary requirement, merely an action which
provides more certainty in most cases WRT to whether or not the
telephone user is "driving" the vehicle for the purposes of
determining if there is a breach of s.41D Road Traffic Act 1988 :0

"Breach of requirements as to control of vehicle, mobile telephones
etc.

41D
A person who contravenes or fails to comply with a construction and
use requirement—
(a)
as to not driving a motor vehicle in a position which does not give
proper control or a full view of the road and traffic ahead, or not
causing or permitting the driving of a motor vehicle by another person
in such a position, or
(b)
as to not driving or supervising the driving of a motor vehicle while
using a hand-held mobile telephone or other hand-held interactive
communication device, or not causing or permitting the driving of a
motor vehicle by another person using such a telephone or other
device,

is guilty of an offence."

But I don't think that's the reason it gets ignored, most people still don't
seem to realise it is illegal or if they do they don't seem to think it
applies to them. There is still a hard core that can't be bothered to wear a
seatbelt and that's been a legal requirement for decades now.

In message
Dave Jackson wrote:

On 03/08/2010 16:56, Graeme wrote:
It's possible that this law is not well respected because some officers
have been over aggressive and prosecuted drivers that have pulled
over to
take a call at the side of the road safely.
You have to switch the engine off to be legal, that's the bit most people
forget.

I was told that you should also get out of the vehicle to make/take the
call, so that it's impossible to be accused of driving while using the
mobile.

Not as far as I am aware.

On a similar theme, my GP suggested that once I started using insulin to
control my blood-glucose levels, if I felt a hypo coming on that I should
pull over, switch off the engine, remove the keys and, if possible, move
over to the passenger seat while I sort out the problem (but I should
avoid leaving the vehicle).


--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/