On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:11:44 +0100,
wrote:

For example, my Oystercard is linked with my debit card so that it adds
£20 every time the fare goes below £5.

I hope it's the balance and not the fare. It could get very expensive if
you make lots of Z1 journeys. :-)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/

On 07/08/2010 16:51, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:11:44 +0100,
wrote:

For example, my Oystercard is linked with my debit card so that it adds
£20 every time the fare goes below £5.

I hope it's the balance and not the fare. It could get very expensive if
you make lots of Z1 journeys. :-)

Tim.

Indeed, it is the balance, to which I was referring.

I have to say that I don't understand how the payment scheme works for
the bicycles if you are a member and have a key to use rather than if
one is a casual user. You are charged only for the time which you have
used, right? So, if you use the bicycle for, say, three hours, you would
be charged for the day at £1, correct?

But what if you use it for less than 30 minutes as a full member. Are
you still charged that £1?

What if you don't use the bicycle at all -- do you not then incur any
charges?

How about for weekly and annual memberships? What are the allowances and
limitations?

On Aug 7, 7:10*pm, "
wrote:
[snip]
I have to say that I don't understand how the payment scheme works for
the bicycles if you are a member and have a key to use rather than if
one is a casual user. [...]

No. A member is basically someone who has an account set up with the
scheme along with an associated key (or keys) - the cost of the key is
£3. At present, only members - those with keys - can use the scheme.
In a few weeks, it'll become open to 'casual users'.

To use the scheme you need to pay an access charge - 24 hours access
is £1, 7 days access is £5, a year's access is £45 (the latter will
only be available to those with a membership and key, and not to
casual users).

On top of this you are then charged a usage fee which corresponds with
how long you hired a bike out for - up to half an hour is free, up to
an hour is £1, an hour and a half is £4, up to 2 hours is £6, and then
it really starts to jump up from there - the basic idea is that you
don't use it for all that long, ideally less than an hour.

The costs are all outlined on this TfL webpage he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/14811.aspx


[...] You are charged only for the time which you have
used, right? So, if you use the bicycle for, say, three hours, you would
be charged for the day at £1, correct?

No - first you'd need to pay for access, so either 24 hours, 7 days or
a year. Let's say you paid for 24 hour access - that's £1.

Then the usage charge for between 2 hours 30 mins and 4 hours hours is
£15 - in other words you simply *don't* hire a bike for that long. The
whole idea is that you hire it for a short period and then return it
to a docking station when you get to where you're going to.


But what if you use it for less than 30 minutes as a full member. Are
you still charged that £1?

You *have* to pay for an access period in order to use the scheme
(whether key-holding member or casual user) - either 24 hour, 7 day or
a year (members only) - once you've done so then the *same* usage
charges apply.

There's no such thing as a "full member" - though perhaps you're
thinking of someone with "annual access", i.e. they've paid £45 for a
year's access.

Perhaps the "annual" terminology is potentially confusing and 'year
long access' or some such should have been used instead - however I
suspect that they wanted to describe it as annual so people could
consider it in the context of say an annual rail season ticket or
annual Travelcard.

I think the use of the "membership" terminology is likely to be the
cause of more of the confusion though.


What if you don't use the bicycle at all -- do you not then incur any
charges?

As explained above, it's all about what access period you pay for.


How about for weekly and annual memberships? What are the allowances and
limitations?

Erm, I hope my attempt to explain it above clarifies matters with
regards to the 24-hour, 7 day and annual access fees.

A quick example - if you've paid for 24-hour access, within that 24
hour period you can hire a bike out for up to half-an-hour as many
times as you want without incurring extra usage charges.

(Note that the T&Cs do state that there needs to be a clear 5 minutes
between docking a bike and taking another one out, otherwise it'll
just be regarded as a continuation of the initial hire - this to stop
people just daisy-chaining their way across London all day long
without paying anything at all - it's easy to overcome though, one
just needs to wait out the five minutes before hiring another bike!)

I think the charging structure actually makes quite a lot of sense - I
fear that the introduction of the words "membership" and "members" has
rather muddied the waters though. FWIW, a similar charging structure
seems to apply elsewhere where there are similar schemes, e.g. Paris
and the Velib scheme.

On 7 Aug, 20:03, Mizter T wrote:

Why is wanting to use a bike for a longer period such a sin that it
should attract such a disproportionately high charge? How large is
the area covered by the scheme, is it only central London, or does it
extend further? How long would it take to cylcle from one side to the
other in heavy traffic? Are you allowed to check it in, and then
immediately check it out again?

wrote in message

On 7 Aug, 20:03, Mizter T wrote:

Why is wanting to use a bike for a longer period such a sin that it
should attract such a disproportionately high charge? How large is
the area covered by the scheme, is it only central London, or does it
extend further? How long would it take to cylcle from one side to the
other in heavy traffic? Are you allowed to check it in, and then
immediately check it out again?

The whole point is to keep the hire bikes in use, not just locked away
somewhere. These heavy bikes are only intended for short trips --
someone planning to ride more than a couple of miles, or uphill, or
fast, would probably prefer to use a conventional bike.

The currently covered area is only central London, but I suppose it will
widen over time. You can see the area clearly in the map:
https://web.barclayscyclehire.tfl.gov.uk/maps

In article
,
() wrote:

On 7 Aug, 20:03, Mizter T wrote:

Why is wanting to use a bike for a longer period such a sin that it
should attract such a disproportionately high charge? How large is
the area covered by the scheme, is it only central London, or does it
extend further? How long would it take to cylcle from one side to the
other in heavy traffic? Are you allowed to check it in, and then
immediately check it out again?

It's a different model to using your own cycle. They are meant for short
journeys in Central London only. You'd be pretty slow not to get from one
side of the zone to the other in half an hour. You need to wait five
minutes between docking a cycle and taking one out again.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2010\08\08 15:12, wrote:

You need to wait five
minutes between docking a cycle and taking one out again.

Oh wow. What's the thinking behind that?

In article ,
(Basil Jet) wrote:

On 2010\08\08 15:12, wrote:

You need to wait five
minutes between docking a cycle and taking one out again.

Oh wow. What's the thinking behind that?

You seem to have missed this earlier in this thread from Mizter T:

(Note that the T&Cs do state that there needs to be a clear 5 minutes
between docking a bike and taking another one out, otherwise it'll
just be regarded as a continuation of the initial hire - this to stop
people just daisy-chaining their way across London all day long
without paying anything at all - it's easy to overcome though, one
just needs to wait out the five minutes before hiring another bike!)

--
Colin Rosenstiel

I've read what the website has to say; seems a pity that you can't pay
by Oyster card.

If I had something like a canal towpath available between home and
work then I might consider it, but even if the scheme does get
extended this far out in the future, there's no way I'd ever want to
cycle up the Brighton Road.

In article
,
() wrote:

I've read what the website has to say; seems a pity that you can't pay
by Oyster card.

If I had something like a canal towpath available between home and
work then I might consider it, but even if the scheme does get
extended this far out in the future, there's no way I'd ever want to
cycle up the Brighton Road.

I never cycled in London while I was being brought up. Since I came to
live in Cambridge over 40 years ago I cycle everywhere. Cycling in London
isn't that hard. Try it!

--
Colin Rosenstiel