Here We Go Again
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10938455

Members of the RMT union have voted overwhelmingly for industrial
action on London Underground in a row over jobs and safety.

The union said 76% of its members voted for strike action.

"We will now use this mandate for action to build up a campaign of
industrial, political and public pressure," said RMT general secretary
Bob Crow.

The union said a date for the strike had not been agreed.

It said it would begin an extensive consultation with members.

RMT said it would also liaise with sister transport union TSSA - which
will announce its own ballot result next week - on the next course of
action.

Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.


I wonder if the "extensive consultation" will result in a strike over
the August Bank holiday weekend.

Here We Go Again
 

On 11 Aug, 13:42, Paul wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10938455

Members of the RMT union have voted overwhelmingly for industrial
action on London Underground in a row over jobs and safety.

The union said 76% of its members voted for strike action.

The sooner these goons jobs are replaced by robots, the better.

Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

So what? It's not like any policy decision is theirs to make. Why
don't we have 100+ station attendants, and 20 on each platform. It
would be safer! Therefore, it must be done.

Here We Go Again
 

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

So what? It's not like any policy decision is theirs to make. Why
don't we have 100+ station attendants, and 20 on each platform. It
would be safer! Therefore, it must be done.

I'm no fan of Bob Crowe but it does **** me off that fares went up
considerably in january yet LU are making cuts to staff which will affect
the service at ticket offices.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On Aug 11, 1:42*pm, Paul wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10938455

Members of the RMT union have voted overwhelmingly for industrial
action on London Underground in a row over jobs and safety.

The union said 76% of its members voted for strike action.

"We will now use this mandate for action to build up a campaign of
industrial, political and public pressure," said RMT general secretary
Bob Crow.

The union said a date for the strike had not been agreed.

It said it would begin an extensive consultation with members.

RMT said it would also liaise with sister transport union TSSA - which
will announce its own ballot result next week - on the next course of
action.

Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

-----

I wonder if the "extensive consultation" will result in a strike over
the August Bank holiday weekend.

No, I can't imagine it would for a moment - that's carnival weekend,
which about a million people go to each year. The union (collectively,
i.e. senior officials and members) simply wouldn't pick that weekend
to strike. I don't think there's ever been a strike threat on the
August bank holiday weekend.

Here We Go Again
 

On 11 Aug, 14:37, Mizter T wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:42*pm, Paul wrote:





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10938455

Members of the RMT union have voted overwhelmingly for industrial
action on London Underground in a row over jobs and safety.

The union said 76% of its members voted for strike action.

"We will now use this mandate for action to build up a campaign of
industrial, political and public pressure," said RMT general secretary
Bob Crow.

The union said a date for the strike had not been agreed.

It said it would begin an extensive consultation with members.

RMT said it would also liaise with sister transport union TSSA - which
will announce its own ballot result next week - on the next course of
action.

Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

-----

I wonder if the "extensive consultation" will result in a strike over
the August Bank holiday weekend.

No, I can't imagine it would for a moment - that's carnival weekend,
which about a million people go to each year. The union (collectively,
i.e. senior officials and members) simply wouldn't pick that weekend
to strike. I don't think there's ever been a strike threat on the
August bank holiday weekend.

Although I seem to recall Railtrack closing all routes to the East
Anglian seaside for about three August Bank Holiday weekends in
succession.

That's a while ago, but engineering work still seems to be allowed to
scupper parallel routes to special weekend events only too often, but
that's not done by a union, so it doesn't attract the same responses.

Here We Go Again
 

In message
, at
05:42:45 on Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Paul remarked:
Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

Getting on a train without a ticket is often quite dangerous.
--
Roland Perry

Here We Go Again
 

On 11 Aug, 15:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
05:42:45 on Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Paul remarked:

Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

Getting on a train without a ticket is often quite dangerous.
--
Roland Perry

As I understand it, there will be no compulsory redundancies as a
result of this exercise, and no ticket offices will close completely.
What is going to happen is that ticket offices will close earlier than
at present, and that staff will be redeployed elsewhere in the
station.
Surely moving staff from behind the ticket office window into the
booking hall, passageways and platforms would make a station safer,
not the other way round? If there is a member of station staff in the
booking hall, they can assist customers who need to purchase tickets,
and make sure that the ticket machines are in working order, and
adequately stocked with change. Perhaps Comrade Crow would like to
explain how systems such as the Tyne & Wear Metro can be considered
safe when they have no ticket offices at all.

Here We Go Again
 

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
Paul wrote:
adequately stocked with change. Perhaps Comrade Crow would like to
explain how systems such as the Tyne & Wear Metro can be considered
safe when they have no ticket offices at all.

Having used the T&W metro and struggled to get the damn ticket machine to
accept my money I can state thats its a pain in the bloody arse not to have
a ticket office available. I imagine the same goes for a lot of unmanned
stations on the DLR.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 09:32, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:43:53 -0700 (PDT)

Paul wrote:
adequately stocked with change. *Perhaps Comrade Crow would like to
explain how systems such as the Tyne & Wear Metro can be considered
safe when they have no ticket offices at all.

Having used the T&W metro and struggled to get the damn ticket machine to
accept my money I can state thats its a pain in the bloody arse not to have
a ticket office available. I imagine the same goes for a lot of unmanned
stations on the DLR.

B2003

But on London Underground the station would always be staffed, and the
station staff could help anyone who is having trouble using the ticket
machines, and as I said earlier, make sure that they are in working
order and adequately stocked with change.

Here We Go Again
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
05:42:45 on Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Paul remarked:
Both unions believe that 800 posts are under threat and more than 140
ticket offices will close, which they say threatens safety.

Getting on a train without a ticket is often quite dangerous.

Working alone in a big, empty, station where the public can
land a punch on your nose (rather than behind an armoured glass
window) might be, though.

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

--
Mike Bristow

Here We Go Again
 

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
Paul wrote:
Having used the T&W metro and struggled to get the damn ticket machine to
accept my money I can state thats its a pain in the bloody arse not to ha=
ve
a ticket office available. I imagine the same goes for a lot of unmanned
stations on the DLR.

B2003

But on London Underground the station would always be staffed, and the
station staff could help anyone who is having trouble using the ticket
machines, and as I said earlier, make sure that they are in working
order and adequately stocked with change.

Well it depends where the staff are. If they're standing near the ticket
machine then sure. If they're down on the platform then what are you
supposed to do? Shout loudly? Jump over the barriers to go and get them?

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 10:33, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:45:58 -0700 (PDT)

Paul wrote:
Having used the T&W metro and struggled to get the damn ticket machine to
accept my money I can state thats its a pain in the bloody arse not to ha=
ve
a ticket office available. I imagine the same goes for a lot of unmanned
stations on the DLR.

B2003

But on London Underground the station would always be staffed, and the
station staff could help anyone who is having trouble using the ticket
machines, and as I said earlier, make sure that they are in working
order and adequately stocked with change.

Well it depends where the staff are. If they're standing near the ticket
machine then sure. If they're down on the platform then what are you
supposed to do? Shout loudly? Jump over the barriers to go and get them?

B2003

In my experience, the number of staff required to help huge queues of
people who are having trouble with ticket machines (not understanding
tickets/Oyster, not taking cash/cards etc etc) is considerably more
than would be required to open the ticket office.

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 12:01, David F wrote:
On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:



I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Indeed. When I used to commute from South Quay to Walthamstow via
Bank and Kings Cross, it used to p**s me off that at peak hours, one
of the passageways leading from the top of the DLR escalator to the
Northern Line was roped off. During the off peak hours this passageway
was open. One would have thought that at peak hours you would have
more passageways open to assist with congestion control. But since
when did LUL care about the invconvenience to passengers.

But the whole point of the exercise about reducing the opening hours
of ticket offices is that staff will be redeployed elsewhere within
the station. This will, if anything, increase station security. Does
Comrade Crow not understand this?

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 12:16, Paul wrote:
On 12 Aug, 12:01, David F wrote:





On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Indeed. When I used to commute *from South Quay to Walthamstow via
Bank and Kings Cross, it used to p**s me off that at peak hours, one
of the passageways leading from the top of the DLR escalator to the
Northern Line was roped off. During the off peak hours this passageway
was open. One would have thought that at peak hours you would have
more passageways open to assist with congestion control. But since
when did LUL care about the invconvenience to passengers.

Tell me about it... I fly into London City on Sunday evenings on a
regular basis. DLR into Bank is nice and quick - they're even nice
enough to put a DLR departure board just inside the door of the
airport when you get off the plane. All nice and smooth until I get
off the DLR. I have to exit the DLR (with a case) climb a number of
steps, past the Northern Line exit (which is closed), over more steps
- up and down - then all the way down the Central line platforms, then
up an escalator, then walk a bit more before I finally get out of the
bloody station. Takes an age and no, I don't pass any staff making it
'safer' for me on the way.

Don't get me started on why I can't turn left out of the steps down to
the DLR on to the platform... why must I walk the length of the
platform, and then back up again if I want to get to the quieter end
of it? And why haven't they fixed the bloody escalator. It used to be
fairly easy to get to the DLR, now I have to walk through the Northern
Line platform when it's 'dangerously' busy. I'm sure as hell not
diverted there for safety.

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 09:45, Paul wrote:
On 12 Aug, 09:32, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:43:53 -0700 (PDT)

Paul wrote:
adequately stocked with change. *Perhaps Comrade Crow would like to
explain how systems such as the Tyne & Wear Metro can be considered
safe when they have no ticket offices at all.

Having used the T&W metro and struggled to get the damn ticket machine to
accept my money I can state thats its a pain in the bloody arse not to have
a ticket office available. I imagine the same goes for a lot of unmanned
stations on the DLR.

B2003

But on London Underground the station would always be staffed, and the
station staff could help anyone who is having trouble using the ticket
machines, and as I said earlier, make sure that they are in working
order and adequately stocked with change.

Use your credit card if you're out of change. If you're having trouble
using a ticket machine, you probably shouldn't be allowed unattended
on the tube, anyway.

Here We Go Again
 

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
Use your credit card if you're out of change. If you're having trouble
using a ticket machine, you probably shouldn't be allowed unattended
on the tube, anyway.

And if you don't have any cards on you but do have money which the machine
won't accept? You might pay with your company gold amex whenever you fly into
London City but not everyone is like you.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 16:11, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:58:28 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
Use your credit card if you're out of change. If you're having trouble
using a ticket machine, you probably shouldn't be allowed unattended
on the tube, anyway.

And if you don't have any cards on you but do have money which the machine
won't accept? You might pay with your company gold amex whenever you fly into
London City but not everyone is like you.

I definitely don't have a Gold Amex ... just a bog standard Lloyds TSB
debit card!

If I was really stuck, I guess I'd pop to the cash machine above
ground - withdraw a tenner and feed that to the ticket machine. If I
had no cards on me, I guess I could try another ticket machine - or
maybe be more concerned that I had counterfit pound coins in my
pocket. Worst case, I could make a short stroll down to the next
station where I am sure the machines would be working - or pick up
some change in a shop on the way. I could even get the bus.

Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

Here We Go Again
 

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
If I was really stuck, I guess I'd pop to the cash machine above
ground - withdraw a tenner and feed that to the ticket machine. If I
had no cards on me, I guess I could try another ticket machine - or
maybe be more concerned that I had counterfit pound coins in my

Or a crumpled tenner or one that someone has scribbled on or ripped.

pocket. Worst case, I could make a short stroll down to the next
station where I am sure the machines would be working - or pick up
some change in a shop on the way. I could even get the bus.

Unlike the DLR most tube stations outside central london are not a "short
stroll" apart. The next station down the line from my station is a half hour
walk. I know because I've had to do it on a couple of occasions.

Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 16:20, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:17:02 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
If I was really stuck, I guess I'd pop to the cash machine above
ground - withdraw a tenner and feed that to the ticket machine. If I
had no cards on me, I guess I could try another ticket machine - or
maybe be more concerned that I had counterfit pound coins in my

Or a crumpled tenner or one that someone has scribbled on or ripped.

pocket. Worst case, I could make a short stroll down to the next
station where I am sure the machines would be working - or pick up
some change in a shop on the way. I could even get the bus.

Unlike the DLR most tube stations outside central london are not a "short
stroll" apart. The next station down the line from my station is a half hour
walk. I know because I've had to do it on a couple of occasions.

Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

B2003

If you want to understand Comrade Crow's attitude to "safety", look at
the saga of the re-opening of the Airdrie to Bathgate line in
Scotland.

Here We Go Again
 

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
Paul wrote:
If you want to understand Comrade Crow's attitude to "safety", look at
the saga of the re-opening of the Airdrie to Bathgate line in
Scotland.

Oh Bob Crowes a dick and he just babbles nonsense 24/7. But there have been
times where my local ticket office has been closed and only one of the
ticket machines was working causing a large queue. Its bloody irritating
especially combined with the huge fair increase in january.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 15:56, David F wrote:
On 12 Aug, 12:16, Paul wrote:





On 12 Aug, 12:01, David F wrote:

On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Indeed. When I used to commute *from South Quay to Walthamstow via
Bank and Kings Cross, it used to p**s me off that at peak hours, one
of the passageways leading from the top of the DLR escalator to the
Northern Line was roped off. During the off peak hours this passageway
was open. One would have thought that at peak hours you would have
more passageways open to assist with congestion control. But since
when did LUL care about the invconvenience to passengers.

Tell me about it... I fly into London City on Sunday evenings on a
regular basis. DLR into Bank is nice and quick - they're even nice
enough to put a DLR departure board just inside the door of the
airport when you get off the plane. All nice and smooth until I get
off the DLR. I have to exit the DLR (with a case) climb a number of
steps, past the Northern Line exit (which is closed), over more steps
- up and down - then all the way down the Central line platforms, then
up an escalator, then walk a bit more before I finally get out of the
bloody station. Takes an age and no, I don't pass any staff making it
'safer' for me on the way.

Don't get me started on why I can't turn left out of the steps down to
the DLR on to the platform... why must I walk the length of the
platform, and then back up again if I want to get to the quieter end
of it? And why haven't they fixed the bloody escalator. It used to be
fairly easy to get to the DLR, now I have to walk through the Northern
Line platform when it's 'dangerously' busy. I'm sure as hell not
diverted there for safety.


Because it's far too dangerous to have people come down a staircase
and enter a platform directly, except at about a hundred other
stations in the central area.

I've said it befo Bank is weird.

Here We Go Again
 

On Aug 12, 12:01*pm, David F wrote:

On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Are you not perhaps jumping to something of a conclusion there in the
reason why people you know prefer travelling on the DLR? Is it not
just because it works (or is more likely to)?

I know people who like the DLR, but the reason given isn't that it has
fewer staff. Yes, the lack of need for drivers does make it less
susceptible to one type of industrial action, but the Train Captains/
PSAs can (and occasionally do) still threaten to strike.


Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Subterranean stations are very different from a safety point-of-view
though - there's a whole host of safety requirements and associated
staffing requirements (and things are fairly strict these days post
the '87 KXSP fire).

I don't know of the specific logic in play at Bank station, but
perhaps these bods have some sort of crowd-control / in-case-of-fire(-
at-busy-times) function that's not immediately apparent.

Here We Go Again
 

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:16:10 -0700 (PDT), Paul
wrote:
Indeed. When I used to commute from South Quay to Walthamstow via
Bank and Kings Cross, it used to p**s me off that at peak hours, one
of the passageways leading from the top of the DLR escalator to the
Northern Line was roped off. During the off peak hours this passageway
was open. One would have thought that at peak hours you would have
more passageways open to assist with congestion control. But since
when did LUL care about the invconvenience to passengers.

But the whole point of the exercise about reducing the opening hours
of ticket offices is that staff will be redeployed elsewhere within
the station. This will, if anything, increase station security. Does
Comrade Crow not understand this?


What Comrade Crow *does* appear to understand is that every change
that is either proposed or introduced by management, no matter how
small, presents a golden opportunity to maximise both (a) the number
of his members who are employed and (b) their remuneration. The
message is clear; if management changes anything at all, it's going to
cost them dear, one way or another.

Having dealt with similarly militant trade unions in the construction
industry, I have to say that Crow's tactics, while both obvious and
crude, are surprisingly effective. He has obviously watched how
similar tactics deployed by ASLEF over recent years have made London
Underground drivers' jobs both secure and extremely highly paid.

The issue of security is not so important, except that it provides an
excuse to demand more money and/or maximise staff numbers.

Here We Go Again
 

On 12 Aug, 16:20, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:17:02 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
If I was really stuck, I guess I'd pop to the cash machine above
ground - withdraw a tenner and feed that to the ticket machine. If I
had no cards on me, I guess I could try another ticket machine - or
maybe be more concerned that I had counterfit pound coins in my

Or a crumpled tenner or one that someone has scribbled on or ripped.

pocket. Worst case, I could make a short stroll down to the next
station where I am sure the machines would be working - or pick up
some change in a shop on the way. I could even get the bus.

Unlike the DLR most tube stations outside central london are not a "short
stroll" apart. The next station down the line from my station is a half hour
walk. I know because I've had to do it on a couple of occasions.

Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

Here We Go Again
 

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 17 Aug, 09:49, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

Here We Go Again
 

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 02:48:59 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
On 17 Aug, 09:49, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

Assuming the system didn't screw up so badly it didn't send you an email.
Anyway thats besides the point - getting money back when a direct debit has
fouled up is a PITA.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

Here We Go Again
 

In message
, at
02:48:59 on Tue, 17 Aug 2010, David F remarked:
No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

Mine doesn't. Perhaps I need to call the helpline and ask them to fix
that?
--
Roland Perry

Here We Go Again
 

In message , at 10:01:04 on Tue, 17
Aug 2010, Adrian remarked:
Anyway thats besides the point - getting money back when a direct debit
has fouled up is a PITA.

Only if your bank is monumentally crap and breaching the DD Guarantee.

But only if the charge was a "mistake". Fraud is a deliberate act.
--
Roland Perry

Here We Go Again
 

In article
,
(David F) wrote:

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

Not if the are an irregular user like me on a very small scale. I also
want receipts relating to actual journeys.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Here We Go Again
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
02:48:59 on Tue, 17 Aug 2010, David F remarked:
No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

Mine doesn't. Perhaps I need to call the helpline and ask them to fix
that?

You might have accidentally ticked the 'Hansen mode' box. Then the email
goes straight to GCHQ...

Paul S

Here We Go Again
 

On 17 Aug 2010 10:01:04 GMT
Adrian wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Anyway thats besides the point - getting money back when a direct debit
has fouled up is a PITA.

Only if your bank is monumentally crap and breaching the DD Guarantee.

Oh thats all well and good - until the company who did the direct debit
insists to your bank that it was a valid debit and your bank takes their
side instead of yours. Been there , done that, not going again.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

Here We Go Again
 

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:01:11 +0100
"Richard J." wrote:
So, on the basis of one incident where your bank was crap, you think
everyone who uses direct debit is not sensible. That's not sensible, is it?

Well that and the fact that if you pay by cheque or credit card then you
can decide to delay payment if you want to. With a direct debit it just
comes out at a set date no matter what the state of your finances. How lazy
do you have to be to give a company direct access to your bank account just
to save yourself 2 minutes paying by another method?

Anyway , I can't be arsed to argue this one, if DD works for you then fine.

B2003

Here We Go Again
 

On 17 Aug, 15:01, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote on 17 August 2010 12:26:37 ...

On 17 Aug 2010 10:01:04 GMT
*wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Anyway thats besides the point - getting money back when a direct debit
has fouled up is a PITA.

Only if your bank is monumentally crap and breaching the DD Guarantee.

Oh thats all well and good - until the company who did the direct debit
insists to your bank that it was a valid debit and your bank takes their
side instead of yours. Been there , done that, not going again.

So, on the basis of one incident where your bank was crap, you think
everyone who uses direct debit is not sensible. *That's not sensible, is it?

Er, no; the suggestion before that was that anyone who has a reason
for avoiding direct debit is not sensible.

Here We Go Again
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

B2003


No, they set up the auto top-up against a credit card where the consumer
safeguards are stronger.

--
DAS

Here We Go Again
 

Here We Go Again
 

On 17 Aug, 09:49, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use myOystercard in the first place.

How do you top up youroystercard then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

B2003

Auto top-up isn't paid for by direct debit. It is a recurring payment
authority (RPA). Two or three days after the card auto tops up, the
£20 or £40 is charged to the payment card saved against the authority.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/termsandconditions/901.aspx